Why do elite development teams avoid Wii?
Friday, February 1st, 2008 at 1:35pm by Derek
Industry analysis and corporate hyperbole aside, there is something to be said for logic.
Nothing deductive or philosophical, either. Just simple, basic logic. The kind of stuff kids learn between finger-painting and cookie breaks in first grade. Logic as it operates in the minds of seven-year-old boys; back then, we weren’t exactly sure what impact “cooties” would have on our health and well-being, but our instincts told us - animalistic survival tactics, perhaps? - they were something to be avoided.
Cooties are bad. Girls carry cooties. Therefore, girls are stupid, gross and to be avoided at all costs.
I suppose one could even call it common-sensical. It just makes sense, and it would stand to reason that similar logic should be at work when major third-party video game publishers decide which platform to support with their best development teams. They watch as Nintendo’s Wii outsells both Microsoft’s Xbox 360 and Sony’s PlayStation 3 on a monthly basis, and as logic provides, they put their most capable teams on quality Wii software to make a profit, develop and sustain consumer loyalty and, ultimately, develop a healthy portfolio for the market’s hottest platform.
Only they don’t.
As devout Wii gamers have noticed, unfortunately, this seemingly logical conclusion dwells somewhere between idealism and naiveté, far from the reality of third-party Wii development. Given the simplicity of the reasoning we have explored, it is not an entirely defective theory to conclude some of the industry’s biggest third-party publishers are taking an illogical approach to Wii development.
And therefore, we can logically deduce, love cooties.
Of course, to make such a sweeping, all-encompassing statement of disdain isn’t entirely fair. To assert that third-parties across the board are giving lackluster efforts on Wii development would not only suggest ignorance, but also absolute inaccuracy.
Konami’s irresistible, quirky Elebits; Atlus’ acclaimed Trauma Center series, which has blossomed into an exclusive Wii franchise; Sierra’s infectious shooter, Geometry Wars: Galaxies; Ubisoft’s No More Heroes, an avant-garde masterpiece; Capcom’s infinitely charming Zack & Wiki; games such as these have proven that a focused third-party development team can squeeze remarkable results from Wii’s modest, under-powered hardware. They also demonstrate third-party competency to stubborn fanboys so eager to decry the merit of any game conceived by a company other than Nintendo.
To their credit, third-parties have published some of the most unique, refreshing and enjoyable titles in the Wii library, in some cases pushing the console’s “revolutionary” philosophy even further than Nintendo.
But those cases are isolated. The long and painful lapses between third-party Wii triumphs are filled by low-budget shovelware and second-thought PS2 ports as publishers take an increasingly secondary approach to Wii software. They put their biggest and best teams on the 360 and PS3, consoles with smaller markets, to work on their best, most ambitious titles. In the meantime, they task less experienced, perhaps less capable studios to appease the growing Wii consumer base with software so mundane that it is insulting, so uninspired that it begs the question, “Why even bother?”
Nintendo’s own Shigeru Miyamoto noticed this unfortunate trend early, and he addressed it in a Mar. 2007 interview with Newsweek’s N’Gai Croal with a now somewhat infamous quote:
“If there’s only one piece of advice that I could give to the managers of third party companies, it would be that a lot of times it seems that when they’re putting games out on Nintendo hardware, those games are being developed by their third-string team or their fourth-string team. Maybe that’s because they see those products as being unique projects or somewhat smaller-scale projects. But when Nintendo puts out a title that is designed to really support and sell its hardware, that title is always developed by one of our number one teams. And so I think that when it comes to the question of trying to compete with our software, I would really like to see them try to do that with their number one teams rather than with the third- or fourth-string teams.”
Almost a year later, his quote is still relevant, applicable to a third-party situation that has simply not changed.
Consider Activision’s Guitar Hero 3: Legends of Rock, which released last October. The 360 and PS3 versions were developed by Neversoft Entertainment. The Wii version was dealt to Vicarious Visions and, as reported by Blake long before others, shipped without stereo sound.
Sierra set my world afire when it announced it would be releasing a new Ghostbusters game in late 2008. Gorgeous screens depicting realistic proton-beams and an ooze-coated Slimer circulated around the Web and caused immediate excitement among anxious gamers, Wii owners included. Then they received the news that their version would be a cartoon-like venture focused mostly on multiplayer.
My pleas to Sierra and Red Fly Studios, the developer handling Wii and, of course, PS2 Ghostbusters development, were quickly responded to with assurances that the Wii version is a priority, not an afterthought. But given the history of tandem Wii/PS2 development, shouldn’t Wii owners be skeptical?
Take LucasArts, which plans to release an ambitious new Star Wars title, The Force Unleashed, later this year. LucasArts is developing the 360 and PS3 versions in-house. The Wii version, however, has been outsourced to Australia where Krome Studios, which boasts a resume highlighted by Ty the Tasmanian Tiger, is handling development.
Give me a kangaroo with boxing gloves over a polished, gorgeous, physics-rich gaming experience any day.
Namco-Bandai chose to develop Soulcalibur IV, the newest entry in its popular fighting franchise, for 360 and PS3. Last November, the company released Soulcalibur Legends for Wii, an extraordinarily bland action game spin-off that should have never off-spun.
And, as we all know, the list goes on. And on.
In some ways, the gross negligence prevalent in most current third-party Wii development is unprecedented. During generations past, the console with the greatest market share has generally enjoyed tremendous third-party support, both in terms of quantity and quality of games. So why should Wii be any different? Why are third-party publishers assigning secondary teams to Wii software? Why are they dropping mere crumbs before Wii owners, virtually turning their back on the largest and fastest growing console market?
The typical arguments have been made consistently and will likely be repeated further; the Wii can’t handle this engine, those physics, that lighting, or these online components. Wii games simply cannot look good, as if gamers imagined Super Mario Galaxy and Metroid Prime 3. And of course, third-parties cannot sell software to a Nintendo audience, as if worldwide million-sellers like Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition, Red Steel and Guitar Hero III made up their own figures.
These tired arguments are getting as stale as old Raisin Bran and every bit as worthless. Yes, third-parties face obstacles in selling software to the Nintendo audience. But they are not insurmountable by any means. To complain or conquer, that is the question.
For third-parties to ignore Wii would be one thing, but for some of them to consider it an unworthy subordinate, to infest it with half-baked, half-broken software and to create justification by preaching its weaknesses is simply to ignore its strengths. To focus without distraction on every reason not to put a capable team on Wii is to simply ignore logic.
And graphics and processing power aside, there is still something to be said for logic.
(Author’s note: Representatives from Ubisoft, LucasArts and Sierra were contacted for comment and/or information on this topic. Only Sierra responded, but did not comment in time for publishing.)
February 1st, 2008 at 6:34 am
Here’s the deal: you’re relying only on the business logic of “follow the customer”, as if third-parties are simply ignoring the sales numbers for the Wii. I think that’s a bit of a simplification. What the third-parties will be doing is 1) testing the water with smaller, lower budget games to see if those work. 2) looking at their existing IP portfolio and examining whether those will work on Wii.
It’s this second point that’s proving to be the real problem. The nature of the controller, far more than the processing power of the machine, has, in my opinion, been the stumbling block.
It’s meant that when development teams have been asked “What ideas do you have for GTA/Devil May Cry/Castlevania/Resident Evil/a.n.other big IP on Wii?” they’ve said “Oh I don’t see how it can be done without gimmicky waggle/a second analogue stick/more buttons”. Put simply, devs are trapped in a mental box with their existing IP in regards to control schemes. They can all come up with new ideas for new IPs on Wii (as we have already seen), but just can’t seem to figure out how to do standard genre control schemes on the Wiimote+nunchuk.
Third-parties aren’t the only ones at fault here either. As satisfying as the Twilight Princess controls were, I fully expect the next Wii Zelda to totally rewrite the control rule book.
Getting back to “why no top devs for third-party Wii games?” I think the companies are looking at their top selling games, giving those games to their top devs and then struggling to see how those games can be brought to Wii, from a control rather than a power standpoint. No doubt that’s infuriating these companies, who will really want to exploit Wii sales. I’m sure it’ll be a problem that’s solved sooner, rather than later.
February 1st, 2008 at 8:51 am
Pardon the conspiracy theorist in me, but I’ve actually long suspected foul play, and I KNOW sony, microsoft and many others aren’t above it.
What do I mean?
Well, secret meetings. A quiet agreement to bury Nintendo early in the generation as a means not not have to deal with the ‘wayward’ platform maker which has gone horribly awry (which is certainly what the execs were thinking - one head of EA even said as much before even knowing the details of the ‘Revolution’ platform).
If such a thing were true and brought to light it could, rather hilariously, result in Nintendo successfully suing every other major member of the industry for anticompetative practices. The money would then rightfuly flow from poor to rich for what was a stupid stupid tactical decision. HA. HA. HA. It would be an entirely humourless colapse of the industry with everyone to blame EXCEPT nintendo.
Well, that’s just speculation on my part.
More importantly, I’ve held for a long time that the problem with the industry is that it’s made for gamers BY GAMERS. The same gamers who graduated from the PSX RULEZ NINTENDO IS FOR BABIES school playground in the mid 90’s
They are predjudiced by history and they still exist today. Ever come across a Sony fanboy? I came across loads growing up in ‘merry’ old England as the sole N64 supporter in my year. These are the same raving fanboys who are developers today. John Carmack (who was an earlier generation) talks about how they don’t make Nintendo products following a bad relationship. A Bad relationship? what relationship? You have to go back to the early days of N64 to find an i.d. game where said relationship might have gone sour. That’s 10 years, 2 presidents, three consoles and another gaming revolution to hold a grudge over. What’s his problem? What’s all their problems. Holding a grudge in business sometimes happens. Everyone holding a grudge or predjudice is just bad business.
Anyway, the result, in my eyes, is poorer 3rd party support for Wii than for Gamecube. How could this possibly happen?
February 1st, 2008 at 9:36 am
Here in Italy the only game that really matters is Pro Evolution Soccer. This year it accomplished 610k copies sold (taking into account every platform that was published on: PS2, PS3, 360, PC), and still going.
Only Pokemon and Brain Training had a somewhat similar success, selling around 200-250k.
Just to give you a comparison Halo 3 went on to sell 100k, similar to SMG (120k, I think), and in general any title that perform a 40-50k is a success (FIFA, EA’s soccer series usually sells that many)!
Next March PES2008 will be also out on Wii (which is a prime time for a Ninty console), and it will feature a whole new control scheme.
As we all know, it wasn’t developed by the studio behind the main series, but some other minor studio.
This version also has been stripped of the main modality: The Master League, where the player made or choose a team and attempt to bring it to the top of the world, buying, selling and training soccer players then bring them to the field and playing.
Instead they put som other modality where the players has to face some challenges during the matches in order to “steal” valuable players from the opponent team.
IGN took a good look at it and they said the control scheme is much more accurate and better than with the joypad, but also harder to get your grips on it, although when mastered really gives you the full control of what is going on the field.
It will be interesting to see here in Italy if it can get a shot and try to get some attention (as the brand is really strong) or if it would be ignored because of the lack of the master league and because it took 7 (!!!) more months to get on the market.
I think it will show me if players are keen to take a gamble on a really new approach for this game or if they prefer to stick with the old (quite tired) game type, and thus giving developers full credit of bringing biggest franchises to the traditional consoles.
February 1st, 2008 at 10:35 am
As an artist I think I may know what is going on a little here. I’ve talked to many people about this yet I hold no power to fix this like many other artist. The simple answer is job security and a possible raise. Most new comers(creative guys some of them) came to the industry off the back of mudbox and z brush. They are not the type that can just code up some thing new like the old days. People have not figured out how to compress normal maps and translate other shader effects down to Wii levels yet. The idea of the quality level of a games graphics are even causing problems for PS3 teams. These artist rely on 1024-2048 textures to keep there boss happy and reach that level of next gen. Most of them are not experienced with low res modeling or color shading and material simulation by way of nintendo’s own “shader” system. Simply put if is not made in the engine then how they hell will we make it! To tell you the truth they almost don’t have time to learn it either because cell development is the current emergency headline in a studio. It effects every one down to the artist. Right now the industry’s engine makers and the guys that actually do a lot of heavy lifting are wrapping their heads around the PS3 and so much money is tied to it that it could cause a sort of collapse meaning lots of Hi res modeler would be with out jobs if these highly funded games fail.
Another thing is the types of games that made small developers big are no long valued, example: any thing 2d. You need a 3d engine and realism to make it. This is what the gamers and the developers believe right now. This is true if you are not creative but have you also noticed how gamers shun creativity these days? These are the things that will cause lots of developers to close their doors. Before there was an excuse for 2d graphics and then for subpar 3d graphics now gamers feel like the developer fails if he makes a 2d game. It could be a real master peace but would be pail in comparison to the FPshooter experience.
If you look around at the level design you will see lots of architects and no movie or set directors. No one thats really good at situational gaming that actually adds to the experience. The art is being lost really when you look at it. Then on top of that most games rely more of mood rather than game play. If they do rely on game play it is mostly the online kind. Part of the problem is too much freedom is giving to the player so it keeps a creative developer from taking simple AI and making you sweat. For some reason AI success has not stopped people from trading their old games back in.
Video games are also loosing their ability to draw people in based on just looking at the characters. In other media you have brand new stuff all the time people trying new things but in gaming if you don’t do what the hardcore likes then they all black ball you it seems. Developers are finding it hard to get around this pitch fork right now and show people some new games. I mean if you are starting a new project you can just hear WE WANT PIXAR MOVIE STYLE GRAPHICS the whole time you are working on some thing. If you do any thing other than that you will be branded weird. Much like the Cooties… So nintendo has had the Cooties for a while… baby games, casuals, or any thing else that says they don’t make stuff for us.
The biggest Cooties of all is that damn remote and the word waggle. Which means people believe that you have to shake the controller to get it to do some thing. This is a combination of not enough feed back on screen of what you are doing and trying to accomplish. If you think back even SF had a practice mode so you could see what mistakes you made while trying to preform a move. In most cases you still got at least a punch out of it.
In a nut shell gaming is becoming more conservative and money driven than art and interaction driven. Gamers are telling developers and publisher hey we want online shooters, realism, and no thank you to any thing weird and new! Most old school gamers have left gaming all together including PS2 owners and they feel as if the Wii is the only system their kids can play…LOL Because they they want them playing GTA when they played it and where totally fine.
Wiiware could change a lot of this. Yet sales chart will speak way more to publishers. Soon they will start asking for more Wii games to be made. Also too their may not be a grudge yet more of some thing like developers holding stock in an HD system. Or maybe they got development kits on a discount and are politely asked to make good on them or pay the full price.
Who knows but once the games start rolling and new IPs are forged on the Wii rather than sequels then and only then will things become a solid base for 3rd parties.
I’m think it’s going to be the summer when every one realizes what has happened. The Wii is the new PS in every since of those letters… They will become the new alternative as games like metal gear and FF show a “nintendo first party power” on those systems as other software falls to the way side.
It has already happened with Ut3 and other games. Once publisher understand exactly what they are faced with they will fold their hands and move on to what makes sense. Fanboys will be silenced along with blogs once the choice is made. If you remember the PS2 had hardly any online play either and when you think about it the Wii is the logical upgrade and more people will believe this as better art is made on this system. Seriously have you seen the fatal frame screen, and fragile screen? The gamer will grow old of the FPS soon as the skilled gamers begin to pop up and dominate the servers.
February 1st, 2008 at 12:03 pm
Great article.
I think what it comes down to is very simple. “A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush”.
Right now, the 360 and even PS3 to a certain extent are known quantities when it comes to what will sell well. The Wii is more of an unknown. So you have a situation where even though the Wii costs less to develop for, it actually seems riskier.
However, as I’ve said before, slowly over time, more successful experiments and more market share will change the gaming landscape to the point that games like Rock Band will be planned for Wii from the beginning.
The fact that we’re getting Rock Band, that we got GHIII, the fact that games like Pro Evo Soccer are coming to a Nintendo console represent a dramatic shift from the past. I only see that continuing and at a much greater pace in 08.
Likewise, we see project after project get delayed and even sometimes cancelled on the PS3. That combined with really slow software sales is going to make that platform much less desirable.
February 1st, 2008 at 12:34 pm
@ Run Kine
I understand that resources have been allocated, investments have been made, and the training isn’t there, but this doesn’t actually excuse this particular case.
Howso? Well, first, it’s not that we’re facing games that don’t maximise the system, it’s that we’re facing games that wouldn’t maximise a Dreamcast. We’re literally getting PSP builds of games. The Wii should genuinely be capable of so much more without any effort at all.
Like you said artists like high res junk because they don’t have the skillz to optimise anymore. The fact is though they ARE fitting textures and whatnot into their PSP builds. I KNOW that they’ve pared down the resolution on this stuff, but then don’t bother to take advatnage of the available higher quality data on their Wii builds.
Furthermore, engine development REALLY SHOULDN’T BE AN ISSUE considering that, from an engine standpoint, Wii = Gamecube. Wii games apparently have inferior engines to Gamecube games. THIS SHOULD BE IMPOSSIBLE BECAUSE THE OLD CODE RUNS NATIVE. It’s true that few developers actually made decent engines on GC, but I really don’t get why Capcom doesn’t bother with ANY ‘grown up’ games considering it already has the RE4 engine. This certainly doens’t excuse games coming out this year apparently being technically inferior to Red Steel last year.
Finally I’d point out that Gamecube was specifically designed to make standard texture/lighting effect run in hardware with easy execution. Even the most basic developers would be able to put specularity (which requires no work if you aren’t making specularity maps), environment maps and bump maps into games with little effort. As it is, I’m seeing many Wii games applying less special effects than many N64 games. Downright ludicrous. It’s just straight lit textured models, probably running with 1/4 the light sources, 1/3rd the geometry and 1/5th the texels that Wii is capable of even with the effects. Artists always want more, but they aren’t using it here.
As for the “WE WANT PIXAR MOVIE STYLE GRAPHICS” argument, all they have to do is not listen to the hardcore. They never spoke for the majority, and in the days of Playstation, the industry never pandied to them either. This is all Microsoft’s fault. Somehow they’ve brainwashed execs into thinking that the hardcore is the only market. It’s not like it’s a resource thing either, because we all know that, even working full tilt, a Wii game would cost 1/3rd to make as the PS3 behemoths. And even with maximum effort, making a game should only be as difficult and resource heavy as a PS2 game, which worked plenty fine before.
That’s what really gets my goat. All they have to do is do what they were doing earlier, and apply the tiniest modicum of effort, instead of ZERO.
We talked about tiers in development studios. I understand that we don’t get 1st tier devs, but we aren’t even getting 2nd or 3rd tier devs. In some cases (such as Civ) we’re actually getting game cancellations. This should be impossible.
To apply numbers to this situation, worldwide I’d say the dev priority order (in investment) looks something like this:
1. 360
2. PS3
3. PC
3. PSP
4. DS
5. PS2
6. Wii
The sales order looks something like this:
Install Base: Rate:
1. PS2 1. DS
2. DS 2. Wii
3. PSP 3. PSP
4. Wii 4. PS3
5. 360 5. 360
6. PS3 6. PS2
7. PC (active) 7. PC (unknown really)
A near reversal. As in, the industry is practically doing the oppisite of what makes sense.
February 1st, 2008 at 12:46 pm
@used Ciso
It’s more like “a bird in the hand isn’t worth more than two in the bush when you have three mouths to feed”.
Catering to one market becomes much more risky when there are so many superior competitors and the market has limited buying power.
Let’s change this again to “a diseased bird in the hand isn’t worth two in the bush when you have three mouths to feed”.
Most of these hardcore games are so expensive they would barely make money even if the market wasn’t crowded. Wheras even mediocre games have demonstrated sales sucesses on Wii.
In the case of rock band let’s change this again.
A diseased bird in a bush isn’t worth two in another bush when you have 3 mouths to feed.
Rock band was a costly experiment. Rock band demostrates exactly how EA were willing to experiment in all the ways we’ve talked about on PS360, but not even PORT it to Wii (thankfully rectified 6 months too late).
February 1st, 2008 at 1:15 pm
@Elmer,
I’m not saying they’re correct, I’m just saying what I think is behind the situation. And I think they see the Wii and its demographic as a big unknown whereas the 360 and its demographics have a predictable pattern making it easier to get budgetary concessions from publishers.
If what you’re saying is true, and to a certain extent I believe it is, then what I’ve said will certainly come to pass because you can only ignore this stuff for so long, or more realistically, it only takes so long to start shifting resources.
February 1st, 2008 at 2:04 pm
“In a nut shell gaming is becoming more conservative and money driven than art and interaction driven.”
Maybe video games are ceasing to be art, then, as “progression” has always been inherent in art.
February 1st, 2008 at 2:23 pm
“And I think they see the Wii and its demographic as a big unknown whereas the 360 and its demographics have a predictable pattern making it easier to get budgetary concessions from publishers.”
I’ve tried to make this point in the past. I think it’s pretty important, but often gets glossed over.
“Maybe video games are ceasing to be art, then, as “progression” has always been inherent in art.”
Video games are art. There is no question about it. They are composed of artistic elements, and thus those elements combined are “Art”. The quality of the art is certainly up for debate, but even something like “Brain Age” is art to some degree.
But that is a major digression from the thread. And far be it from me to spark a debate on this site. I already ruined my mood last Friday.
February 1st, 2008 at 4:03 pm
Wah! Long comments that people are reading and making intelligent comments on! What is this and what has it done with my internet?
February 1st, 2008 at 4:31 pm
Hmm… I see what you’re saying. 3rd parties want to test the Wii waters before they jump right in. Unfortunately, they seem to be testing them with 8 layers of socks and waterproof rubber boots. They don’t have the balls to bring out a good development house to make a Wii title. It’s understandably risky. They give us games with crappy gameplay, graphics, and sound but a big name and say “if you buy this, we’ll make you a good one. We promise.” Yeesh. Dream on. Gamers aren’t stupid, ya know.
But there is hope. Pipeworks Godzilla Unleashed (despite various negative reviews) is one of the Wii’s best offerings in fighting action and has graphics that, simply put, show that the Wii isn’t a Gamecube anymore. The same is also the case with EA BIG’s SSX Blur (ALSO despite various negative reviews) which is the best snowboarding game I’ve touched. Great visuals, music and controls. Unfortunately, these titles aren’t being reviewed with the same care as big name titles. Both titles have recieved glowing, positive reviews and condescending, negative reviews.
In the end, just buy the good wii games and 3rd parties will pick up and notice. And don’t be afraid to try a game you normally wouldn’t!
February 1st, 2008 at 6:03 pm
Uhm, because Wii is considered “no challenge” for developers…?
I think most publishers think Wii development is so “easy” that they don’t need better/more experienced teams working on it.
Interesting that such a thing actually backfires on Nintendo Wii…
February 1st, 2008 at 7:23 pm
@ Used Cisco
I know, I got what you were saying and should have worded my comment more carefully. It’s how the devs see vs the way things are.
As for the situation changing? I’ve actually started to resign myself to the fact that the situation won’t change in this cycle. True it was a different situation but the industry has actually ignored the situation to the point of self destruction before. Of course it was Nintendo that bailed everyone out then too, but so far as I know what happened was new companies displaced the old guard as they progressively went out of business.
When I see EA posting winter quarter losses, and general ignorance to the situation (and their admission to Rock Band Wii actually seemed grudging), I worry for the coming upheaval. These are companies that have repeatedly demonstrated an unwillingness and inability to admit their mistakes, let alone learn from them. Worse than being wrong about Nintendo once, they’ve been wrong twice (DS succeeded before Wii) but still hold steadfastly to their misplaced convictions. Western devs in particular STILL ignore DS as a serious platform 3 years into its dominance. Just as Nintendo had to, companies will essentially have to reinvent themselves or be replaced to follow the shift in the market, and many have a poor track record for innovation.
I think in a year or two, many Japanese Devs will start making the switch, but almost all Western Devs will be out of pocket and closing up shop rather than ‘Sell Out’ and work on ‘last-gen’ hardware.
February 1st, 2008 at 8:38 pm
This avoidance is bugging the heck out of me. I enjoyed the great 3rd party Gamecube games and am currently enjoying the PS2 ones. Here is what is getting to me:
1) The utter lack of good games- even the Gamecube had better third party support
2) Features found in the PS360 version lacking in the Wii version.
3) Using secondary dev. teams resulting in secondary quality
4) Sharing the same engine as the PS2/PSP so the developer saves money, resulting in poor graphics
February 1st, 2008 at 9:09 pm
@Elmer,
I agree with you totally but that view is just one view. If you look at HD development it is dominated by the UT3 engine. So what engine on the Wii is getting passed around like a drunken maiden? I would love to see the res evil 4 engine getting sold to other developers Suda 51 could have used it. Maybe the smash brother engine will help people out. Yet No one I know has seen the nintendoware graphics engine/toolset yet with the fur shader. I’ve seen that the GC is capable of such effects but I’m not sure any one is actually advertising a engine that can even do mario galaxies. Even epic has been approached with the idea of putting the UT3 engine on the Wii they simply said the money was not there. LOL what is funny is I think people are ready for some thing or some one to come along and make an engine and it may just be only an graphic engine to make the transition to the Wii’s shader engine easier. Like I said before every one is just trying to finish that PS3 game up and hope that it sells. Developers are still hoping the PS3 pulls through. While the transition to the Wii has already started in most japan based camps. Lots of people are hoping to ride the back of metal gear and final fantasy.
You have to also realized that lots of developers are spoiled by MS and their tools…and some times their marketing money. They have made it less of an adventure and more like a shopping cart when it comes to development. Yes some thing still don’t fit in that cart but developer and hyped about what does. To start all over and then even claim that hey the Wii can’t possibly sell this game sort of is the winning argument among developers right now. It’s going to be the higher ups that make the switch to the Wii.
Also too most developer are using the Hey look what I can do on this HD system and you remember what we could only do with the PS2. Thats how they are looking at this and spec wise the higher ups are looking at things and seeing a 250-300 mhz system verses a 4 ghz system… really this is what they see! So the expectations are still really low. It’s going to take games to prove that the Wii is really equipped with more than just the engine that ran the GC.
Look for factor 5 ,temco , capcom, and maybe even some strong showing from the Wiiware thing since it may be the closet thing to community development which is one of the reasons why the PS2 and the PC has been optimized so much.
Nintendo still expects people to invest in a graphic engine r&d wise yet every one is set up mostly just to out source that part. Example buy the UT3 engine or call MS every day. I mean look at all the games that have been delayed due to PS3 issues with the UT3 engine. This system is pretty good yet they are still having issues, yet a developer like factor 5 simply hacked the thing and released a game, the game may have not sold really well but it easily looks better than most and actually may have maxed the system out. There are not that many factor 5s around any more… Thats not an excuse but a fact.
Right now developers may be looking at away to break up with the hot date known as the PS3 yet they have invest so much money in her…LOL Eventually the accountants will be able to show you books that will actually help you pay for that lost by way of the Wii. Once people start leaving the PS3 then the Wii will start to get PS2 code support.
Yes it is a shame but keep your eyes open because after 20 million units sold you start to care less about who is buying them and start looking at the potential that they too could pull the hardcore into this market also even if they didn’t purchase the box them selves.
February 1st, 2008 at 9:29 pm
@Jim,
Actually Jim once you’ve used and actually got a normal mapping pipeline for your game going then it is way easier to make an HD game. it is way harder to sculpt a lower resolution model and wrap it with a lower res texture. Yet you simply make your stuff as high as you want to and then tweak it down on the HD stuff. It’s really a no brain-er. The hard part is learning the normal map pipeline and most people already have learned that.
Nintendo should address the shader conversion problem as people really are using out of date engines or either they are just not optimized at all. Out sourced developers don’t have huge teams of coders.
@Clonester the best thing you can do is just ignore the crap you will save money. The same thing happened on the PS2 yet no one remembers. It even happened on the xbox 360 yet it had an easier GPU to deal with.
Also too these secondary developers are simply cutting their teeth and may actually be able do a lot better once they get a publisher. They are simply piggy backing right now.
@Elmer’s second post,
Don’t let EA fool you they are serious about being the number one publisher and supporting nintendo is like supporting the enemy. The same goes for Ubisoft yet they are an under dog to this situation. They may still be operating off of the fact they many people still believe nintendo software is the only thing that sales on the nintendo platform. Yet EA has a hard time actually making better games than nintendo some times. I mean look at brawl… who in the hell would put that many options and freebies in a game! You have Hd games that barely even have that many options and the achievement thing is built into the xbox 360!
Don’t let those thing spoil your year as it will be the new comers and japan that starts the turning of the tides. Also too I don’t know any game development school with Wii’s as an educational tool.
February 1st, 2008 at 10:18 pm
@Elmer,
“As for the situation changing? I’ve actually started to resign myself to the fact that the situation won’t change in this cycle.”
But it IS changing, in THIS cycle.
Lets look at last cycle with regard to a few major games.
Guitar Hero III
Rock Band
Pro Evo Soccer
These are MAJOR titles, MAJOR franchises. They would NEVER in a million years have come to gamecube. But the are on, or coming to, the Wii. Yes, in some cases they are late, or of marginally lower quality, but they are THERE. This is a drastic change from last cycle.
“Western devs in particular STILL ignore DS as a serious platform 3 years into its dominance.”
This is not completely true. I admit, they are slow coming around and it DOES appear that they make games almost grudgingly, but they are making games.
Look at games like Spore, Assassins Creed, Civ Revolutions. These are games coming to the DS simply because it can’t be ignored.
And thats what I think will happen with the wii. Its massive sales success and ever ballooning market share will become so much that the companies that matter won’t be able to ignore it. Its already happening on DS with games like DQIX and CoD4. Who would have thought the DS would get an FPS like CoD4 that skipped the Wii or that the DS would get Assassins Creed while the Wii doesn’t? These games are not MEANT to be on DS, but the install base to like an 800 pound gorilla.
Well suffice it to say, I’m predicting that by christmas of 08 there will be a goddamn mating pair of 800 lb gorillas. The Wii and the DS.
February 1st, 2008 at 11:44 pm
Cutting my comment down to size, here’s my take: The PS2 sold more than the Gamecube.
It’ll take time for third party devs to pick up on the Wii.
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:16 am
Run Line: The crap isn’t even on my radar. It’s that there are very few great 3rd party games period, much less a good variety. On Gamecube and PS2 there were platformers, RPG’s, action games, sports games, etc. Not so on Wii. At least Disaster: Day Of Crisis sounds good.
And one more note- Japan loves the Wii. Where are the big RPG’s?
February 2nd, 2008 at 9:29 am
“Well, first, it’s not that we’re facing games that don’t maximise the system, it’s that we’re facing games that wouldn’t maximise a Dreamcast. We’re literally getting PSP builds of games. The Wii should genuinely be capable of so much more without any effort at all. ”
This really sums up my feelings on the vast majority of 3rd Party on the Wii. This is why other than RE4, I have refused to buy any port for the Wii. And this is why other than a small handful of 3rd party titles have I even bothered at all with 3rd parties on the Wii. It’s quite sickening seeing the sea of crap on the Wii. Yesterday when I picked up my copy of No More Heroes, I felt like I was finding a diamond in a septic tank.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:05 am
“Lets look at last cycle with regard to a few major games.
Guitar Hero III
Rock Band
Pro Evo Soccer
These are MAJOR titles, MAJOR franchises. They would NEVER in a million years have come to gamecube.”
I had this thought myself a little while back, and you’re totally right. The fact that developers are willing to put GH3 on Wii does mean that the tides are changing. It’s just not happening as quickly as it needs to in my opinion.
Great thread, nice well rounded discussion.
February 2nd, 2008 at 11:57 am
@Clonester,
They are already announced? Ok let me look them up for you!
Tales of Symphonia: Knight of Ratatosk
Publisher: Bandai Namco
Platform: Wii
Genre: RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: Q1 2008
Baroque for Wii
Publisher: Sting
Platform: Wii
Genre: Action RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: Spring 2008
Fragile
Publisher: Bandai Namco
Platform: Wii
Genre: Action RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: 2008
Fushigi no Dungeon: Furai no Shiren 3
Publisher: Sega
Developer: Chunsoft
Platform: Wii
Genre: Action RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: 2008
Oboro Muramasa Youtouden
Publisher: Marvelous Interactive
Developer: Vanillaware
Platform: Wii
Genre: Action RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: TBA
Chocobo no Fushigi na Dungeon: Toki Wasure no Meikyuu
Publisher: Square Enix
Platform: Wii
Genre: RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: Winter 2007
Opoona
Publisher: Koei
Developer: Artepiazza
Platform: Wii
Genre: RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: Summer 2007
Dragon Quest Swords: The Masked Queen & the Tower of Mirrors
Publisher: Square Enix
Platform: Wii
Genre: RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: TBA
Ousama Monogatari [King Story]
Publisher: Marvelous
Developer: Cing, Town Factory
Platform: Wii
Genre: Simulation + RPG
Origin: Japan
Release: 2008
Well not a RPG but should not be missed….
Zero: Gesshoku no Kamen
Publisher: Tecmo / Nintendo
Developer: Grasshopper Interactive
Platform: Wii
Genre: Horror Adventure
Origin: Japan
Release: Summer 2008
I’m sure more of these games are coming out but with out Sqaure making a big push on the Wii in the beginning lots of companies in japan will make a big push to fill in this gap.
Be patient guys and remember the good games where delayed simply because every one though that nintendo was not going to be a player at all this time.
Yes there may be very few 3rd party games out there but they are coming believe me. If you just look up some of the games I’ve posted you will realize the graphics and competition is heating up on this system and just because lots of game are not announced does not mean they are not coming. The games I posted I’ll be 95% of the “hardcore” crowd don’t even know about them because they don’t look or check deep enough on what games are coming out.
@ResidentialEvil I’m glad you posted that remark about NMH because that game is what a true hardcore player would play and beat. Seriously you should check out my list and also look at what developers and publishers are actualy making these games happen. You will see Bandai Namco, Sega, Vanillaware, Square Enix, Chunsoft, Cing, Town Factory, Tecmo, Grasshopper Interactive and Koei. I did not even add monster hunter to that list. Face it the industry was cuaght with their pants down and really the BIG RPGs will stay on the HD systems because thats where development started. Now if they flop because of the FPS conservatives then they will come to the Wii. Really pay more attention to the developers that are actually giving the Wii a chance and check out the news coming from japan. The US is xbox 360 bound and the UK is PS3 bound news wise it seems. If you want new releases for the Wii you will need to look at japan first. Oyeah Spore is coming to the Wii also… I’m sure there will be more games and the action rpg thing is very fun. Give it time the stuff is coming guys.
February 2nd, 2008 at 12:49 pm
I plan on buying Okami, Zack and Wiki, Fatal Frame, Factor5s new game among others
……..not too shabby huh
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:04 pm
@Run line 10…
thanks for your insight. very interesting.
February 2nd, 2008 at 3:10 pm
Simple; low attach rate. Yeah, the Wii itself sells like hotcakes, but people don’t buy as many games for the Wii as they do for, say, the Xbox 360.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:09 pm
@prox,
But this is only true in japan where the Wii attach rate is very low. But in the Japan, the 360 attach rate is meaningless because the install base is so small. Recently the Wii attach rate in NA has surpassed even the 360s. We’ll have to see if that can maintain that advantage.
February 2nd, 2008 at 4:30 pm
I guess because productioncosts are gerenally lower on Wii and the focus isn’t on high end graphics many 3rd parties think they can get away with “ps2 graphics” (because people do not expect much more from wii to begin with) and still make a healthy buck even with fewer units sold since they keep costs to a minimum.
I think the thought process of the higher ups must go somethin like this
If for example Ubi Soft develops an average quality game that costs them 10 dollars to make and sells 20 units of that game each unit for 1 dollar they make better profit eventually than with a better game that costs twice as much to develop but without a growth in sales volume.
It doesn’t make sense from a business standpoint
February 2nd, 2008 at 7:54 pm
well i think that publishers should get off their lazy fuckin asses and make some fuckin good games why should i play a game game developed by a studio other than the one producing god fuckin dammit .. shesh had to let off some steam
February 2nd, 2008 at 10:08 pm
Yeah, it is nice to see Pro Evolution + Guitar Hero type games on Wii. That’s definitely a plus and hopefully a sign of better things to come.
Run Line: I appreciate that list you put together. But just because there are a few RPG/Action RPG’s doesn’t mean they’ll be good. Fragile has potential (Tri-Crecendo is a good dev) and Opoona sounds decent, but that’s it. RPG is my favourite genre, but I’m very picky about them. Storyline + character development is very important and yet somewhat rare. The Gamecube had few RPG’s but 3 of them were great: Skies of Arcadia was amazing, Baten Kaitos was excellent, and Tales of Symphonia was quite good too. I’d like the Wii to snatch a few good RPG series from the PS3.
February 3rd, 2008 at 6:05 am
Factor5 better license the hell out of their new wii engine
February 4th, 2008 at 4:06 pm
I get what you’re saying, and there definitely is some shift in the market, but you picked some really REALLY unfortunate examples:
Guitar Hero III - Borked (and in the UK actually more expensive than the PS3 version) and took zero effort to port to Wii (thanks to it not relying on graphics and the presence of a PS2 version)
Rock Band - Half a year after it mattered, and in all likelihood, moderately borked, not to mention it would run on an N64 (as above). I wouldn’t and shouldn’t have felt honoured if it came out at the same time as everyone else, but it didn’t.
Pro Evo Soccer - Gamecube actually got a Winning Eleven game, and we didn’t have to wait 6 months for it.
Spore - I’m still waiting for them to screw this up. The lead developer in charge of the console ports was the one who made the obviously derogatorry ‘Wii = 2 GCs taped together’ comment, for which EA made him retract the comment upon noticing it was an unpopular thing to say. I’m sure the DS version will be a cellphone port (yes, coming to DS is meaningless because it’s coming to Cellphones!), and I’m fully expecting the Wii version to be broken in some fundamental way (perhaps at EA’s suggestion Nintendo doesn’t have an online service again).
Assassins Creed - I regard this in the same vein as Spiderman. The DS got a nice sidescrolling 2.5D version of that as well (and before it was a rip-roaring success), and at least the Wii got a crap port of that property. It’s not like this is a big deal either; the GBA got side-scrolling ports of everything too, as did the GB before it.
Civ Revolutions - Well the hilarious aspect of this is that not only is it so obvious that it really should have been done on DS 2 years ago, but they just canned the previously delayed Wii version because… well, the only reason anyone can think of is because they hate Nintendo.
In relation to DS development, read this (just in):
http://kotaku.com/352300/where-did-the-neat-ds-drawing-games-go
DQVI is obviously an incredible coup, and support for COD4 was actually kind of unnexpected I must say, but getting the crap COD3 and then being passed over for Wii pisses me off no end. We had this conversation before; I believe this represents an active REDUCTION in Wii support (I suppose thanks to diminishing PS2 support) which never happened to DS. I believe the two are in a different situation, and the slow support for one (which on the Western end I still contest) is not going to turn into support for the other.
February 4th, 2008 at 6:02 pm
to put things in perspective, did you guys played every ps2 game last generation? I can say I played around 700 games thanks to a modchip and most games were very simple and ugly. a can say there were about 50 AAA and B+ games in total.
Now we scrutinize every single Wii game expecting a revolutionary way of gaming, but the reality is most of games are the same stuff we have been playing for decades. elite development companies don’t wanna get into the Wii because they make a living by selling the same old game over and over, that’s why the are experimenting with newer smaller teams with a big name taking the blame if something goes wrong.
But of us are so stupid to see this isn’t going to change at least not this generation. people are still amazed at how Nintendogs and Brain Age can sell millions and yet totally understand why Guitar Hero is the new Mario Bros. only if you realize where the business is you will make money, if you stick to making ridge racers and FPS you aren’t innovating the industry, you are there expecting the same money you got last year for that same game.
February 4th, 2008 at 6:12 pm
besides most nintendo fans have been living on nintendo games for the last 10-15 years, if third parties can’t compete or don’t even want to compete, why should you care? get another console if you want Assasins Creed or HD Madden. I already got a Pc, a Wii and a DS to play most of the good stuff.
February 4th, 2008 at 9:41 pm
Elmer,
You’re definitely a “glass is half empty…….and will likely shatter in my hand so I dare not touch it and therefore I’ll die of thirst” kind of guy.
February 4th, 2008 at 10:58 pm
The recent focus on attach rates amongst some reporters is interesting, since that figure alone is pretty much worthless. What matters more are what games are actually selling. I’d argue that the Wii attach rate is artificially low because of poor ports (GHIII instantly springing to mind), certain “hardcore” titles skipping the system entirely, and the (smaller than you’d think) group of owners who purchased it only for Wii Sports and a couple of mini-games (like retirement homes).
February 5th, 2008 at 7:36 am
@ used Cisco
I know. I balme Sony Fanboys for making my life misery at school. The days of N64 were both glorious and dark for me.
Anyway, I like being able to give a negative Nintendo fanboy viewpoint and play devils fanadvicatboy as opposed to the continuous positivity and self love you get from a lot of the typical fanboi types. It’s actually one of the reasons I like this site (a mix of differing opinions from Nintendo Fanboys) as opposed to where 4colorrebellion is going with fairly uniform positive views from Nintendo Fanboys.
February 5th, 2008 at 8:41 am
@elmer,
Haha, thats funny, I always thought 4CR was a little too happy/friendly. Like the “stepford” fanboys.
I don’t go over there much any more but when I did, I really enjoyed them. They used to do a great podcast, but then quit, thats when I ended up leaving I think.
February 11th, 2008 at 8:23 pm
[...] There is some great further reading by at Infendo. In their spread, entitled ´Why do elite development teams avoid Wii?´ they pose that very [...]
February 14th, 2008 at 10:42 am
Will factor 5 be the epic games of the Wii? Really the president of factor 5 has a point you are allocated funds for your graphics engine also. If factor 5 succeeds then suddenly the graphics pipe line gets a nice boost as R&D is cut way down. How many developer can really code a PS3 game from scratch?? Or better yet who dares invest in such a task? A number of tools have appeared on the horizon and a perfect storm is forming it seems. an open professional developer community would big for nintendo and their current tech. This is some thing the xbox 360 and PS3 currently have pre-built with the UT3 engine.
February 14th, 2008 at 6:03 pm
[...] There is some great further reading by at Infendo. In their exposition, entitled ´Why do elite development teams avoid Wii?´ they pose that very [...]
February 17th, 2008 at 1:32 am
About the whole games are art thing. Everything that calls itself a game is not art nor is every game art. The medium itself is, but everything in the field is not art. Painting your wall blue does not alone make it art, its’ view is what can make it art. Everything’s based on perspective.
Video games are not all games, in fact calling them video games is something that doesn’t apply to the whole medium anymore. “Interactive Experiences” is more accurate, but much less catchy and known even though it applies more to the state of evolution todays games are at in comparison to their beginnings. You couldn’t begin to make the movie type stories we have now, but in order to gain them we’ve lost a lot of those stories gained by just playing the game and experiencing what it had to offer. Bioshock and Metroid are the closest examples of what I’m thining of, but are still not the exact types of game I have in mind for what I would want to come into the mainstream.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:19 pm
[...] There is some great further reading by at Infendo. In their spread, entitled ´Why do elite development teams avoid Wii?´ they pose that very [...]
March 16th, 2008 at 12:56 am
Most companies develop titles not for a single system, but do parallel development of each game for each of the major systems.
The problem with creating fun, engaging Wii games is that will typically involve innovative use of the Wii remote. This type of development would preclude any sort of parallel development of the game on either XBox 360 or PS3.
I am not cognizant of the specific numbers involved, but I believe XBox 360 and PS3 together likely represent a greater market share than the Wii by itself. So a software developer is expecting a greater return on their XBox 360 & PS3 investment than something exclusive to the Wii.
March 18th, 2008 at 4:29 pm
These are all good points, but here is the view from inside the industry:
1. Nintendo has always been very hard to work with. They really don’t seem to care about third parties at all. It is hard to get them to talk to you at all. They always have had a real attitude towards third parties. Sony was getting like that, but with the reversal of fortune they have started to become really nice to their third parties. Microsoft has the reputation of being the easiest to deal with.
2. Wii is low-spec hardware. Down-porting is hard and expensive. Up-porting generally makes your high-spec hardware look crappy. Writing to high-spec hardware is easier because you don’t have to be so careful about making things fast and efficient. That takes more time and is expensive.
3. Tools. Most developers were weened on the PC because you don’t have to pay to develop for it, and it’s right on your desk. They are used to Microsoft Visual Studio and Direct X. Nintendo’s stuff seems to be based around Metroworks Codewarrior and optionally some variant of OpenGL. It is also a lower spec machine (see 2 above). They have to rewrite all their DX9 fancyness for Nintendo’s libraries. They have to do that for PS3 as well, but that at least is running similarly capable hardware.
4. The control issue. There is a feeling that everybody needs to support some Wii-style gameplay that takes advantage of the pointing and gesturing ability of the Wiimote. The other platforms don’t require that. So that adds expense to a Wii port above the cost of working on other platforms. Added cost makes it less attractive.
5. Demographic. It’s all well and good that old folks, women and children love the Wii, but you can’t count on them to buy your game if it is a squad-based FPS, a fighting game, or any of the traditional game market demographic titles (i.e. 17-25 year old male). Whether rightly or wrongly, game companies have convinced themselves that their traditional audience is on the X-Box 360. (Personally, I think this is stupid, and just leaving money on the table, but that is just me.)
6. Ramp-up time. After the Game Cube, all game companies decided that Nintendo was dead, dead, dead. Suddenly, they are #1. It takes time to switch resources over to a new platform, build new relationships with a manufacturer, and finding people with Wii experience to program games is very difficult.
March 19th, 2008 at 1:27 am
Whilst I don’t have anything particularly insightful to add to this, I’m really impressed at the quality of the comments here. It’s refreshing.
March 19th, 2008 at 7:28 am
I completely, 100% agree! Man, mine seems really short…
April 1st, 2008 at 2:04 am
There’s one very important reason for the failure of third-party support for the Wii. Nintendo themselves are sabotaging the output of games for the Wii. With their “Japan-first” mindset, bat$#!* games come out in droves (that interest the consumers in Japan) for the Wii, but many of the Western-themed games get so heavily revised by the Nintendo taskmasters that a first-rate development team won’t want to support it. Also, Nintendo of America is the subservient b*tch to Nintendo of Japan. There isn’t a two-way dialogue, just orders coming down the pipe.
Nintendo also continues to protect the integrity of their own IPs at the expense of others. They ensure that their games, like SMG come out with no competition, ensuring themselves great sales. Doesn’t anyone lese think it’s more than a little odd that Super Smash Brothers came out so late? It should have come out swinging for Christmas sales, but didn’t. Again, Nintendo gerrymandering things around to guarantee themselves supremacy.
Ultimately, if you want someone to blame for the failure of the Wii’s software title selection, point the finger right back at Nintendo themselves.
April 3rd, 2008 at 1:22 am
actually i buyni alot of wii games more then 360 actually and i had wii one yr later then a 360
and you all are wrong about that less 3rd party support
nintendo probably has more support then 360 and ps3 combined,,
look at this list
sci
rockstar
ea
activision
eidos
thq
atlus
take 2
ubisoft
sega
factor 5
free radical-2 titles soley for wii are timesplitters 4 and second sight 2
ea sports
ea sports big
midway games
atari
and the list of independant developers goes on
lets look at some of the awsome games even if some were ports or not
re4 wii edition
zack and wiki
manhunt 2-not port just another version
medal of honor heroes 2 - same as above
driver paralel lines-port but a good one,
the godfather -released the same day as other versions so no not a port
medal of honor vanguard
red steel -wii exclusive
farcry vengance-wii exclusive
call of duty 3
sonic secret rings-wii exclusive
sonic riders wii exclusive
cruisn -wii exclusive
big rig racing-wii exclusive
classic british motor racing-wii exclusive the best part is the price at launch-19,99 lol ya tell me bad support i say not!
carnival games-wii exclusive and good for those who dont have an amusment park any where near them and dont wanna drive to some fair grounds to play these games sad but true
ea playground-wii/ds exclusive yea complain all you want its fun and thats all that really matters i rather have fun then play some boring game like hour of victory knowing theres a better game in the same genre out there
and no dont point the finger at nintendo,, its not nintendos fault ea rehashes its sports titles every year ,, just like it aint their fault they dont want to release the same games boring games that are on ps3 360 , i own all 3 and quite frankly do not want any of the 3rd party titles the same on wii as they are on 360 ps3 example
ps3 and 360s medal of honor game is medal of honor airborne wiis is heroes 2 and vanguard which would you prefer,on wii ,, regardless i think ill take the later 2 , and they are not the same as i would play on the ps3 ,or 360 ,,
just like how we got soul calibur legends and ps3 360 got 4 ,,
two different games meaning a better selection of games on what ever platform you own , not a choice between 3 versions of many games like many said ,
this gen youll need 2 consoles at least to get all the good games and wii must be your first or 2nd choice because if you get a ps3 and 360 youll lose out on more games,, sad but true but if you chose a wii first then debate which 2nd console has better exclusives some say ps3 some say 360 im neutral i picked em all but youll need 2 at least to get alot of the good games for example do you think timesplitters 4 will be on ps3 360 if so youll be wrong ,, free radical wants it on wii and for those who want haze may want to pick up a ps3 simple choices make the better of us
i just listed some of the many 3rd party major or small studios that develope for wii and the important thing is gameplay and value red steel ofers 4 player multiplayer that your family will enjoy, 2 will add online hopfully so both family and distant friends and strangers can play while many fps games on 360 lack offline support for multiplayer, so its either pay up or no multiplayer,, see what im getting at
also they want to charge 60 dollars plus what ever they want to maxiimize your enjoyment for example map packs cost 500-800 points thats 5-8 dollars, more, remember last gen many maps and such came standard ,,, or the game sucked this gen is mainly the sit and wait for it gen ,,, and pay extra for what 6 maps in pd0s case which was confirmed along long time ago to have over 30 maps ,, and we havent got close to that and we wont, sadily ,, thats why i say get 2 systems and make sure wiis on that list because youll miss out on lots of things brawl and mariokart 2 prime examples ,,
or soul calibur legends, and red steel among other 3rd parties exclusive deals,
change is nice dont you AGREE last gen ,,, you had little variety which made choosing your 2nd console harder, last gen you got a ps2 and couldnt decide on a gamecube or xbox why because either you didnt like nintendo or the titles on xbox are the same on ps2 almost
this gen is different,,
remember its about gameplay and value first graphics should be a secondary objective,, why because here look at this game and by the way its a multiplatform ps3 360 game then ill do a all 3 console game then a exclusive
first one on all 3 consoles
madden -price 49,99-wii-59,99 ps3 360 ,,,, which would you choose, great or new innovative gameplay along with the roster update or the roste update with graphic overhaul which isnt really an overhaul since its ea lol ill take 10 dollars off my price for a new innovatve madden over one that plays to similar to my last madden
now for ps3/360 game
price 59,99 , juiced 2
ya looks awsome but come on there are better racing games on last genplatforms that cost less, burnout revenge is one of them so would you choose a nice but no content or fun title for 59,99 or a good title we already know that was good for half the price ,, and still looks great today, i take the later, as juiced 2 and many others lack content ,,,
now exclusives that never lived up to hype
360-perfect dark zero - for a launch game this looked kickass
but what did it offer that pd64 didnt aside from that graphics overhaul for 59,99 pd0 was a waste, 6 character 10 maps in multi no advanced options,, less weapons compared to the originals whoping 50 + weapons 30+ chARacters plus exchangable heads and advanced options loads of levels 16 to be exact and all where included in the game,, for the cheap price now a days that this game goes for ,,,, for those who dont have a copy im sure theyll choose the later, i my self believe iwould if i hadnt known about it at launch , i payed 39,99 for my copy of pd64 ,, and it offered 10x more then what my 59,99 copy of perfect dark zero ,
so tell me what you would pick graphics or gameplay value and exceptional graphics for its time and still fun to play today
wii- we know wii isnt supposed to be a powerhouse why complain about it if you already knew it wasnt why did you buy one,,, ugh the complainers,, its not like nintendo didnt warn you ahead of time
lets see-medal of honor heroes 2-minus psp version
it offered online gameplay wii zapper feautres ,, a rail shooting mode as well as the standard good gameplay of medal of honor we alll know and love and graphically wiis games look good enough,, i can see if it were all 2d blockish ,, then ya thered be somthing to complain about but since wiis slightly better then an xbox 1 ,, which produced awsome games and some say it never reached its potentail then wii will have some amazing graphics, and lets not forget , ps3 and 360 have a big chore of going a 10 year distance while nintendo doesnt,,
while 360 and ps3 will be out dated youll still pay 59,99 for those games, and nintendos next console will be out 4 yrs from now,, and have graphics of probably sonys and mses next console,
and cost half the price , how much far do you think graphics will change ,,,, i dont think it will that much to warrant another purchase without new innovations,, weve reached movie like graphics,the only step forward i see in ms and sonys future is bigger hdd, more controller support and just another console which takes up more space,
but nintendo i see this
graphical overhauls, they have ways remember snes, ,im sure you do known for 2d gaming, thats not all it produced,, thanks to super fx chips
add that to innovative motion sensing controls of a wii
add a solid line up of 1st 2nd and 3rd party titles, and a big fanbase gained by wii ,, at a low price i see it now , ps4 like graphics for 200 dollars, thats nintendos goal making the cheapest system as i said technology isnt getting much better from here on out , the only thing left is virtual reality i doubt well see that any time soon if that happened,,, itll cost ya 1000 thats right itll be aimed at the rich market
theyve already said by the time their ready to overhaul the graphics itll be way cheap to do so ,
so heres the way i see it ,, if nintendo pushes graphics past 360 and ps3s what do you think microsoft or sony will be forced to do ,,,, either rush out a console of their own or drop out ,,, by the time their next console hits the market-which is 5 yrs after nintendo released its new one,,, theyll be ready for their 7th unit lol ,,, you know thats whats gonna happen if nintendo takes the standard 5 yr life span ,,
whats 5 x 2 =`10 thats right theyll skip a gen(ms and sony)
the developers wont like that at all,,, look at dc, to early for its time instead of 360 and ps3 being to early,, itll be to dated for its time lol,,
big mistake there to charge people 600 -400 especailly if the console is faulty or your system has no to little aaa titles
i see what nintendos doing if you all dont then your blind,,
May 2nd, 2008 at 4:07 pm
Well, it’s months later, and to toot my own horn I’d just like to point out, I totally called it on EA borking Rock Band. It’s all become a bit predictable.
@ Geekfest
I’ll have you know that while that’s true in the West on install base, Nintendo’s been selling at a higher rate than 360+PS3 combined in pretty much all territories for about a year, and in Japan, the land of RPG nuts where there are no Wii RPGs released by Jap’ 3rd parties, Wii has an install base outnumbering the combined competition 3:1
@ Tina
What the hell happened to the entrepeneurial spirit that built America? You see a gap - an opportunity in the market and you exploit it.
This applies to unserved genres, undeveloped middleware tools, unchallenged game competition landscape and untested control interfaces. In the old days your reasons 2-6 were the kinds of things that make companies WANT to try out that business. And point number 1 is just pathetic. In fact, when that positivity is generated by handouts it’s untenable. And bordering illegal. Here’s some role play:
Denis Dyack: Sorry Nintendo, we’re fucking over to the other side ’cause you’re Bastards
Nintendo: You asked for $50 million Dollars.
Denis Dyack: Yeah, well Microsoft promised us $80 million.
Microsoft: Yeah, spread the word, Nintendo are cheapskate backstabbing Assholes.
All 3rd parties: It’s true, I asked them for free money, and all I got was a ‘WTF?’. Microsoft would never do that. We’re best friends. I hate Nintendo
Nintendo: Fine, you want them? You can have them, and the $-70 million they’ll make you…(fucknuts).