Third-party devs cut corners on Wii games
Tuesday, February 19th, 2008 at 12:38pm by Blake
Or so says Newsweek’s N’Gai Croal.
“The first third-party to truly solve what Wii gamers want will become very wealthy,” said Croal, in the March 2008 issue of EGM. “But I don’t believe that most third-parties apply anywhere near the amount of time and resources necessary to resolve it. Sure, they’ll experiment with some exclusive brands and titles, but at the end of the day, they’ll treat [Wii development] like the Game Boy Advance and the DS — licenses and brand extensions aimed at casual gamers and kids.”
Modus operandi, indeed.
February 19th, 2008 at 12:58 pm
Ugh. I’m getting sick of hearing this over and over again, mostly because it’s true. And even when third party companies do make good games, they don’t get supported. Zack and Wiki sold what, 300,000 copies? Whereas that disc-shaped pile of feces called Carnival Games just went platinum, meaning it sold 1,000,000 copies.
There’s no justice in the world.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
What I would like to see more of is analysis about *WHY* this is occurring that leaves the imaginary vendetta against Nintendo out of the equation.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:33 pm
Derek tells why in his most recent feature.
February 19th, 2008 at 1:38 pm
Yup, we all know this. The DS was in a simllar situation for awhile in that these were the only games on it also. It seems to be lasting longer with the Wii though.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:09 pm
Capcom got close with Zak and Wiki though.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:33 pm
Blake, I read and commented on that feature. And it’s an excellent analysis. That’s why I want more of it.
February 19th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
@Platinum
The more I play Zack and Wiki, the more I realize how awesome of a game it is. I love all the hidden details, like the music-player upgrades that play songs from some of Capcom’s classics. There’s just a huge amount of detail in that game. A great effort from Capcom.
February 19th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
The truth is, as far as Wii is concerned, the quality of the games is driven by the consumers, not the third-party developers! When a third-party developer invests the extra money and effort to produce a Zak and Wiki or a No More Heroes, they get slapped in the face with low sale numbers. They always get rewarded, however, whith big sale numbers for the Rayman Ravin’ Rabbids and the Super Mario Party titles.
February 19th, 2008 at 3:32 pm
Benthedorklord: About Carnival Games…there was a discussion on Infendo over Carnival Games when news broke that it had gone platinum worldwide. I never expressed my view on it, but given that Z-Dub has sold less than 1/3 of what Carnival Games has sold worldwide, I feel the need to chime in with my personal take.
I think there is certainly something to be said for a game like Carnival Games selling so well on Wii. There is a huge market for that kind of game, and obviously, people enjoyed it enough for it to sell more than a million copies. Playing a simple game with family, kids, grandparents. All good things, in practice.
But in principle, I have to admit, it leaves a nasty aftertaste. Why should a game like Carnival Games, which with all due respect is a critical flop and a relatively low-quality Wii title, outsell so many great Wii efforts? It just doesn’t seem right.
Though I’m a critic, I do understand that defining a “great Wii effort” is somewhat subjective. But come on…Carnival Games? Really?
There are a few issues. One, what impression is the Wii owner who purchases games like this left with? They buy Carnival Games, played Wii Sports, and are left going, “Is that it? That’s what everyone is so excited about? That’s Wii?” In theory, being jaded by bad games like this could shortchange their Wii experience and result in Nintendo having a huge marketshare of inactive Wii owners.
Two, what are other third-parties to think about this? If a second-rate, PC-focused development studio can churn out something like Carnival Games and sell a million copies, why should Capcom ever again put so much development and creative muscle behind something like Z-Dub? Or Atlus behind Trauma Center? Or Konami behind Elebits? Or any third-party that has, or could, put out quality software on Wii?
Third-parties are cutting corners on Wii. It is blatantly obvious. But why shouldn’t they? If Activision put its best development teams on a Wii version of Call of Duty 5, if Capcom had its strongest employees working on Resident Evil 5 for Wii, if EA put everything it could behind Madden 09 for Wii…would it even matter? Would they sell, or would the majority of Wii owners browse past those games and pick up Carnival Games 2 and Mario Party 9?
Third-parties are DEFINITELY at fault on Wii. But I’m not sure their “corner cutting” is the only problem. Certainly the biggest…but not the only.
February 19th, 2008 at 4:41 pm
…….
The one thing everyone seems to forget was that Carnival Games was/is marketed. When the game released, there were plenty of commercials for it- Saturday morning cartoon shows, most of the time.
Also, if you go into Wal-Mart, they have a Wii ‘movie’ featuring several different games. The ony non-1st party game that the reel shows off is Carnival Games. How much money do you think Take-Two invested to still have that ad campaign running.
My hats off to TT. Not a fan of the game, but I am a fan of there commitment to go and make their game known to the masses.
February 19th, 2008 at 5:20 pm
I also think its unfair to constantly bring up Carnival Games. It sold phenomenally well, but it’s also just one game. Traditional games are selling well on Wii as well, so it’s not like the market is solely snatching up casual games. Zack and Wiki is great, but I’ve seen about 90-billion ads for Carnival Games and zero for Z&W, which has to have contributed to its lower sales. Still, for a new franchise, Z&W sold fairly well, and Capcom has officially stated that they are happy with the game’s sales.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:11 pm
I see a few flawed arguments above.
1. Contrary to conventional wisdom, Mario Party is not a third-party franchise.
2. I’m pretty sure Rayman Raving Rabbids 2 didn’t sell nearly as well as the first one. I’m actually thinking about trading in my copy…. can’t give it to my Wii-addict nieces because after playing it for an hour, one of them asked to get it for xmas.
3. The people who have bought a million copies of Carnival Games do not ever go, “Is that it?” They just keep playing Carnival Games over…. and over…. and over. Sometimes they take a little break and play High School Musical Sing It or, in the case of my nieces, Guitar Hero III.
4. The DS didn’t start getting decent third-party games until at least 18 months after its release, probably not until the release of the Lite. If the Wii still has only 4 or 5 great third-party titles by summer, I might buy that argument.
February 19th, 2008 at 6:42 pm
Great points even my girl friend knew about carnival games. I gasped then ignored she said it…LOL! Then she saw dancing with the stars and guess what she actually wanted that game till she did the research and looked at some game play videos. She actually isn’t even softcore…LOL she hates games in away yet a Wii game peaked her interest. It’s like this your not going to sale her a game if it looks too much like video game. You can go for a gamer like her who would love a real dancing game or some sort of trainer(wii fit) or you could go for the other hardcore player, you know the ones who still have a PS2 and love every thing before the big HD push. Some times I wonder if developers forgot how to make those types of games as it took them so many contras just to make one better than the snes version?
How many time have you seen Zak on tv? Hell do you even see it in mags? What is needed very badly is the every one channel or some sort of ads service that keeps you up on what is big on the Wii or maybe what the next big thing is. Here nintendo can give these guys free ads basically by just flashing the screen shots. Hell even if they just linked to the web when your wifi is contented that would make a load of difference. Just like the hardcore player have to be feed their news even more so with new comers. I mean really going to the fragile site gets you excited about the game. A nice flash player would help also…. Any thing would help at this point because so many Wii games are lost in the sea of fanboy battles on the internet. You constantly hear about the bad and the good is mention and then ignored. Really variety in game play is key along with ads. Maybe the pubs are just use to getting free pub from all the hype mags. The problem with that is if it’s pretty then it’s going to be big in a mag.
The corner cutting is looking like it’s a money issue along with motion control programming being too much for some studios it seems for the simple fact that they are not spend enough money on developing these things. Yet this may not be the case for most studios as they may actually have some thing cooking and it’s just taking forever.
Hey but who knows things are starting to move along though.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:10 pm
@ Andrew- I agree, world isn’t out to get us.
@ Andrew & Blake- I don’t see how Derek’s article answers the question. And, yes, I only skimmed it. But let me summarize (pls correct where i lapse):
- Why do 3rd party devs provide hack games for the wii?
- Because they use their b and c teams.
This seems to be begging the question. 3rd parties are ignoring logic, yes? Then what logic are they following? Is their behavior simply random?
Here’s an idea: they cut corners because the reward for AAA titles is not commensurate with the required investment. Casual and cas-core gamers are harder to get interested in a specific brand/ IP, and therefore no wii single brand or IP deserves a significant investment. So they think.
Or, the combined ps3/360 install base brings more money than the wii, so creating games for those two +pc makes more sense than investing in wii-specific software.
February 19th, 2008 at 7:33 pm
Another misconception I see is the idea that if Zack and Wiki had been promoted to the same degree as Carnival Games, it would have sold as many. It wouldn’t have. In the 30 seconds it would take to explain Zack and Wiki’s plot in a commercial, never mind showing puzzles or gameplay, you could show the play mechanics of most of the minigames in Carnival Games and get the idea behind the game across.
Just as Shaun of the Dead was never going to do as well at the box office as Spider-man 2 despite being the better movie, Zack and Wiki was never going to make as much money as Carnival Games, and I would go so far as to say it was never meant to.
February 19th, 2008 at 8:11 pm
woa woa- shaun of the dead was better than spidey2? no way. good movies both, but only one awakened the hero in all of us.
as a rule of thumb, any movie with bruce campbell ranks higher than anything else. except for movies with chuck norris. of course.
February 19th, 2008 at 10:18 pm
For now I’ve pretty much given up on any solid third party support. I pretty much refuse to buy any mini-game/puzzle games and other than Resident Evil 4 and Twilight Princess I’ve refrained from buying any ports. I also stay clear of any game that’s only on the PS2 and Wii because 9 times out of 10, we know what we’re getting. And of course I would never give a dime for any shovelware crap.
It’s a shame because Nintendo has kept their end of the bargin, with some great first party titles, and they’ve made games that show the Wii can do better than last gen graphics. I’ll have to be content with continued good firsty party titles and the rare third party gem. And hope that by this time next year third parties actually decide to make some actual “gamer” games that are developed by their best developers AND made specifically for the Wii.
February 20th, 2008 at 1:07 am
OK, then…. Shaun of the Dead vs. Shrek 2. I wanted to avoid comparing it to a cartoon (though Spidey nearly is one thanks to all the CGI) but I guess SM2 wasn’t as heinous as SM3.