Selling R4 carts illegal, says Japanese court
Saturday, February 28th, 2009 at 2:38pm by Derek
Nintendo gets what Nintendo wants.
The Tokyo District Court granted an injunction yesterday against sales of the R4 DS cartridge in Japan.
The original lawsuit was filed last July, when Nintendo and 54 game companies, including Capcom, Square Enix, SEGA and more, pushed for the cease of marketing, sales and importation of the Chinese-made cartridges.
Nintendo had expressed an interest in the cart in Nov. 2007, when a spokesman said the company is “keeping a close eye on the products and studying them.”
The “R4 Revolution for DS” cartridge is a hollow shell that fits into the Nintendo DS cartridge slot. By placing data onto a Micro SD card and placing it inside the R4 cart, gamers can play pirated and homebrew software on their Nintendo DS systems.
R4 is advertised in some Japanese stores with signs stating “New R4 shipment has finally arrived! You know what it does! Absolutely no questions will be answered concerning this product” and “Guaranteed for one week only! Of course, we can’t explain what the R4 will do.”
February 28th, 2009 at 4:03 pm
So wait, is it illegal to own them or just to buy them?
February 28th, 2009 at 4:58 pm
Firstly, it’s only illegal in japan as far as I know, that and, it’s illegal to market/sell them in japan
No Japanese court can make it illegal in other countries. It’s just a matter of time before the western governments follow suit.
As for now, no need to worry me thinks, this won’t affect the majority for atleast, oooh, a couple of weeks.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:05 pm
who cares? there’s a dozen other cards that do the same thing, a lot of them do it better. as far as DS carts go the R4 is already pretty much obsolete anyway. Get yourselves a CycloDS, kiddies. They’re the best and they’re not even made in China.
February 28th, 2009 at 5:47 pm
@ Ben
It’s Illegal for a business to sell them in the country.
February 28th, 2009 at 6:51 pm
I can’t decide if I’m for these types of devices or against them. On one hand they do enable gaming piracy, but on the other hand they do allow for cool homebrew applications. If Nintendo were to open their platforms up like Microsoft did with XNA then there would be less of a justification to owning these devices.
Even the DSi may feel slightly restrictive to the consumer. They’ll only be able to play AAC music, but from what I’ve heard there are homebrew applications that allow the user to play MP3s and video files.
February 28th, 2009 at 7:57 pm
@Craig
cool homebrew applications…really? Come on now, Craig, homebrew applications….if I have the passion and ability to make another DS unit converter, I don’t need to spent money on R4. If I love music and willing to pay my songs “legally,” I don’t want to play them on my DS. Once again: cool homebrew applications…really?
Those flash cards are not the problem, they are the smallest problem that Nintendo needs to watch out for illegal pirating. It’s the people who are willing to take advantage of those flashcards, they won’t change, so everything else are just smokes.
What I feel about the situation is much different(right), I think you can do whatever that you feel like doing with a product, once you bought it. As for the games: good games will always sell, that’s the bottom line.
February 28th, 2009 at 10:37 pm
@RoyalRook A lot of people are interested in carrying an all in one device. Why have a cell phone, music player and game player in your pocket when you can have 1 device that does all of that? I don’t own a DS, but when I get my DSi I’m going to try to use it to replace my Zune for music. I’ll have to convert my music to AAC, but I don’t want to be carrying 2 devices everywhere.
There are a lot of cool homebrew applications yes. You can play Quake and Doom on the DS. Play music and videos. Play arcade games, etc. It’s extending the purpose of the handheld which I’d define as cool.
That being said I do agree with you that pirates use homebrew as the excuse for owning a flashcart. That’s why I was saying if Nintendo followed in the footsteps of Microsoft and did an XNA type solution there’d be no reason to own one of these devices. Microsoft allows developers to make community games for their console without hacking. Those who hack the console get caught and it’s funny to hear their justification is because they want to play “backups.”
I feel like you think I support these types of devices for piracy, but the point of my original post was to view them constructively. They can be used for bad, and generally are, but there are legal benefits to them. I don’t pirate my games
.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
@ royalrook
cool homebrew apps, yes, really. i personally don’t want to carry a DS and a music player at the same time around with me. it’s also a lot cheaper to get a cyclo card and a micro hdsc card with a ton of memory then to get the equivalent memory on an ipod. i don’t understand how the legality of the songs works into your argument; you can play song you’ve bought on your ds without trouble.
you can also watch movies, and the ds screen isn’t bad at it. it’s cool to be able to switch between a game and a tv episode in a few seconds.
moonshell (a homebrew app) also has a ridiculously sophisticated alarm clock so if i wanted to i could wake up to a different song from any specific album at a different time of day any of 7 days a week.
there are some basic animation programs you can try out.. i’m basically doing with those what i used to do with mario paint’s cartoon maker.
plus, i can go ahead and play games like metal slug 7 for months upon months before they’re even released in north america and wait to buy the one in english with english packaging etc… more people buy things they download first then you may think.
oh yeah, i pirate stuff too. before you jump on me, that means i download games that i never would have any intention because it’s over my budget or because i know i only want to play them for a couple hours at the most going into the experience. does this hurt the industry? no, because the money i spend on games now is the same as the money i spent on games before i had the flash card. what it does it allow me to live beyond my means in a way that i challenge anyone to prove to me has a real victim.
February 28th, 2009 at 11:24 pm
well, i’m an idiot who can’t spell or type worth beans this evening, but the gist of what i’ve said above holds. i’m not even drunk, i swear. but i will proofread next time.
March 1st, 2009 at 12:27 am
I’ll try to be relevant despite the fact that I don’t use flash carts of any kind on my DS:
Before the Virtual Console, I had an emulator for the NES, SNES, and N64. Somewhere near the beginning of the Wii’s lifespan, I deleted all three emulators from my computer because there was a chance that every single game I was playing would be released on the service and I could enjoy it legally very soon (and many of them have come out). I could have continued to play the games on the emulators, but now that these games were potentially going to be available to me in a solid format and I would be able to support companies that I want to encourage to continue making games, I decided I would be patient.
That’s what DS gamers who use these flash carts need to do. You don’t absolutely need to play a game that has already come out in Japan but is well on its way to the states. You can wait. You don’t have to “demo” a game that you think you might want to buy, which is a terrible excuse because, even though the game is in stores, you already have a copy of the game at your fingertips and you know you aren’t going to buy it, so your stifling the companies that create and release these games. And I just can’t imagine homebrew apps are that stunningly innovative.
People who use flash carts know they are doing something that is wrong and illegal. If they didn’t know it, they wouldn’t waste so much breath making excuses for their actions. Support the games industry, be patient and buy your games. Don’t steal them.
March 1st, 2009 at 12:44 am
@tylor
NO. You need to re-exam your life if you really feel that way. I am not asking you to change for me, because I am not your parents, but you need to feel guilty for your actions, and change for yourself. At least, you need to learn how the read only files works, why such file need to exist, and the history behind it before you make statement about you want to live beyond your means without paying for anything.
@Craig
Can you see it now? There are many people just like tylor. They don’t understand why they need to pay for someone else’s hard works. And in turn they think they are the victim of their current economic situation. They feel no shame in stealing other’s hard works. It’s fine in many’s eyes (not mine) if they can appreciate video games, but the sad part is they can’t. They give up almost nothing to gain what they want, therefore they can’t feel gratified afterward. And the only way they can continue their craves is to pirate more stuff. The industry should never support such crowd, because as they grow up, they can only take, and feeling no shame while doing it. I am not calling such people anything, but anyone who has any education should catch my drift. The society has no place for such behavior, and it’s not a proud tradition, we can not support this, we will be ruined before we know it. It’s never too late to change, you just have to will it. Devices like R4 doesn’t help at all.
March 1st, 2009 at 12:52 am
@Andrew G.
I love you man, I love you so much. That was so beautiful, dude, I understand and believe everything you just wrote man.
March 1st, 2009 at 9:49 am
@RoyalRook Gamers who pirate everything don’t associate any value with these games as you said. This does have a negative side to it also. Because these games are “free” these gamers don’t respect the goals and rewards contained in these games and stop playing after only playing for a short time from boredom. They switch between these free games hoping to find enjoyment, but they don’t.
Piracy has helped several companies and even bands throughout history though. It helps get your name out there. For example the original Doom by id Software was widely pirated, but helped make id the successful gaming company they are today. People often say the reason companies like Adobe and Microsoft don’t have a firmer stance on piracy is because it helps them maintain their monopolies. If everyone was forced to pay the $300 for Microsoft Office they’d look for cheaper alternatives and other businesses would thrive. When Metallica first started they encouraged people to bootleg their music in order to get their name out there. They’re an alright band, but because everyone heard of them they became the success they are today.
Why do you have such an EXTREME anti-piracy stance? No offense, but your stance on this argument is reminding me of a religious zealot. I mention there are cool homebrew applications and it’d be cool to watch media on the DS and then you say there is no such thing as cool homebrew and nobody should want to listen to music on their DS. Then you’re demanding taylor repent and change his ways, shame on him. Then you reply back to me and essentially say that piracy will lead to the downfall of society, but it’s not too late to change our ways. Then you’re in love with Andrew G because of his post? Did you read the first paragraph where he said he had emulators to play these games? Wouldn’t you label him as a pirate too? After all, he could have went and bought these systems, bought the games and supported the industry. I’m anti-piracy, and I love to see pirates brick their hardware when their modchip exploits go wrong as much as the next guy, but you seem to take things too far.
March 1st, 2009 at 9:58 am
@RoyalRook BTW I’d love to hear your stance on used game sales. As far as the industry in concerned used games sales are equal to piracy. Money made from a resale of the game never goes back in developers’ hands. If a gamer pirates a game or buys it used, it’s essentially the same thing. Well, one option does benefit GameStop, but they’re not making our games are they? We shouldn’t outlaw used game sales should we?
March 1st, 2009 at 12:07 pm
@Craig
Why I love gamers like Andrew and hate free loaders like tylor? Andrew was curious about certain retro games and had little chance to obtain certain titles at the time, that’s whom ROM for, and who it was created for. Just think the internet as the last defense or last Eden for endangered retro games. So there is always a chance for our great-grand children to experience the exact same game as we did.
Rom, hack, and patch are also our last forbidden weapons when the game industries gave us no choice, or mistreated its loyal patrons. I don’t want to go very deep in this, but let’s just say Mother 3 is a classic case, or no online support retro PC games.
What make tylor different is that he proudly pirate current games, or worse, the games that haven’t even hit the street dates. He does it with no guilty feelings and he won’t stop, he can’t help himself. He needs to feel satisfied, immediately, without any equal personal sacrifice. I don’t want to think anyone just become tylor, but pirating stuff online continuously is a pretty bad omen. What kind of banker or researcher do you figure he would grow up to be(if he has the discipline to get that far)?
Currently, the used game sale system is destroying the market. Personally speaking, the industry is not doing nearly as good as it suppose to be doing. We have so much more gaming demographic than we can ever dreamed to have 10 years ago. Yet, the software sales are not matching up. On one side, we grow geometrically, on the other side, we receive arithmetic return, it’s just not matching up.
Look at the PS3, sure Sony made a horrible overall product, but what really killed PS3 was not Nintendo or Microsoft, it’s the PS2, lol. It had so many good games(God of War I+II, FFs, bla, bla, bla) floating around the used game market, the general gaming public had no real reason to upgrade. And by the time the killer apps like MGS4 hit the system, the momentum is all gone, therefore, Sony just can’t recover its fan base from it’s competitors anymore. What the industry needs, is a central guardian system that controls the used game circulation. I am not trying to sound like a totalitarian, it is what it is. You can’t have the used copy of a game sitting next to the new release of the exact same game, which only been released 2 days ago with a 5 dollar off used game tag. Image how much money Gamestop made, before the publishers worked out the margins. The stores probably cut open the box cases right after the launch day and take all the profit in between with the used game sale. You see what I am saying? The game stores don’t care, or it’s going to be too late(market melt down like the PS3) before they do, but so what? They are still rolling in all the doughs. SOOooooooooo, yea, that’s what I think about the used game market.
March 1st, 2009 at 1:49 pm
@RoyalRook I’m not a fan of centralized digital distribution systems. Currently things are too restrictive. I can’t take my WiiWare games to a friends house and I doubt I’ll be able to move them to the next Nintendo system. These companies set the price, and there’s little the consumer can do about it. You can’t resell your games or let a friend borrow them. When I was younger me and my friends used to borrow each others N64 games, that wouldn’t be possible anymore.
Who defines how good the industry should be doing? More consumer dollars are going to gaming than the movie or music industry at this point in time. The gaming industry is a runaway success for the entertainment business. How much more successful should this industry be? Nintendo spent 2-3 years trying to meet demand for their Wii hardware. Now they’re struggling to meet demand with WiiFit. At this point it’s the companies that can’t keep up with demand, not the other way around. You can’t blame used game sales on the fact more WiiFits aren’t being sold.
Heh, I wouldn’t blame the used game market on PS3’s current sales rate. If the PS2 was so successful then why release the PS3 when they did? Why not delay the release until today? They’re essentially competing with themselves for consumers’ Playstation dollars. When the PS3 was released, what would you expect the consumers to do? Destroy all PS2 games and prevent the resale of them? That’s not going to happen and that’s pretty anti-consumer.
If a gaming company wants to cut down on used game sales, lower the prices of games as time goes on. Halo 3 shouldn’t be $59.99 today, when I can find it used for $20. If the companies want additional revenue they need to compete with used games.
Look at other industries… resale exists. I can resell my car, furniture, guitar, computer, lawn mower, etc. Why should I not be able to resell my games? What makes their industry better than the others? If the gaming industry wants to treat digital bits like physical media then they have to allow resale. If you make your product too restrictive the consumers revolt and you’ve got a bunch of taylors running around. Soon as the RIAA started suing music fans I stopped purchasing music. I don’t even download music anymore. I listen to the radio or podcasts. Epic games said they’d like to charge $20 to play the final boss in games because used games hurt their sales. I probably won’t buy an Epic game again because of that statement. When an industry gets greedy, the consumers will revolt and their sales will suffer. We made these companies successful, and we have the power to bankrupt them.
March 1st, 2009 at 5:47 pm
@Craig
I am in no mood to argue with you anymore, so I am going to put this very plainly to you: screw you, and all your irrational excuses. Because the bottom line is this: there is not a single right reason or logic out there for you to play pirated game files. Either you recognize that or we have nothing else to talk about. On this topic, it’s pretty black and white for me. You are jealous of the developers who has made millions on the game market? Go make your own games, and see how hard it is to finish a project.
March 1st, 2009 at 6:25 pm
@RoyalRook How do you get that I’m jealous of developers from my posts? I really don’t understand that. I’m simply stating that I refuse to support corporations that start suing, bullying and threatening their customers. It’s got nothing to do with jealousy. I seem to be pro-consumer and you’re pro-corporation. You make the assumption companies are good and always do the right thing, which is not true.
There is no reason to justify piracy? You just stated a few posts up that Andrew G’s piracy of NES, SNES and N64 games was acceptable. That seems kind of contradictory.
Things are not always black and white. Every post you’ve responded to you’ve turned into an irrational good and evil argument. You seem to fly off the handle and either love someone or curse them in your posts. Rather than debate what people posted you’re attacking them directly. Telling me to screw myself? Really mature and great way to have a civil conversation. Why not give a non-irrational counterpoint to one of my claims?
Last question: how does me making video games equate to piracy?
March 1st, 2009 at 6:43 pm
@RoyalRook I apologize if it seems like I’m attacking you in my posts, I’m trying to explain my views on this subject. Everyone has different opinions and I’m trying to explain where I’m coming from in a constructive manner. It frustrates me when people attack each other on the forums to such an extreme without providing a decent explanation. I believe it’s totally fair to try to better understand where you’re coming from. I’m trying to pry a better response than “it’s wrong” from you when I’m trying to demonstrate that piracy has helped certain industries. Again, I’m not a pirate, all my software, music and games are legally purchased.
March 1st, 2009 at 8:42 pm
@ Royal Rook: I suggest borrowing somebody else’s brain and looking at the posts again. You sound like a christian telling people they’re going to heck if they don’t convert.
March 2nd, 2009 at 11:48 pm
Okay, just a show of hands (cause it seems there’s a riot going on with words), who exactly here uses their DS for homebrew software?
March 9th, 2009 at 9:29 am
I think NIntendo made a good move to help stamp out piracy. Everytime someone downloads a game illegally to play, they are depriving several hundreds of peopla a paycheck. Just like the whole deal with Napster. People were obtaining that music for free which deprives the artist, and recording studio of their paycheck. While those guys are rich and don’t necessarily need the money, the same is not true with developers.
So if you guys want to continue seeing great titles, BUY THE F’ING GAMES!!!! If you don’t buy, developers and publishers lose money, and therefore their budget’s will decrease, thus making that next epic game, a little less epic.