Editor’s note: We know it’s difficult for Jack to realize that Nintendo is on the verge of releasing its second Virtual Boy this fall in the form of Wii Music, but we’ll let him play devil’s advocate just this once.
Apologies in advance, but I’m not going to give up on this title until I play experience the final product. Why? Because, as we learn more about it, and the knee-jerk, obtuse reaction to E3 begins to wear off, it’s quickly being revealed as a pretty ingenious effort on Miyamoto’s part. I’m not the only one who seems to think so, either. Here’s another take on genius of Wii Music, and why comparisons to Guitar Hero and other rhythm games are startlingly incorrect.
This is why musicians love Wii Music while everyone else is confused about it. “You cannot mess up!†squeal the hardcore. But the purpose of music is not to play notes. Is the novelist about writing sentences and grammar? No, it is about writing stories. If it was writing, instead of music, then the rhythm games would be ‘grammar games’ set to people’s favorite stories, and an actual ’story game’ would be what WiiMusic is where sentences and grammar are no longer ‘issues’. Imagine if acting was seen as nothing more than ’saying lines’. How an actor would be horrified by that definition! And how guilty we would be if we believed it! Acting is far more than rote memorization. So why are ‘music’ games seen this way? It is because they are not music games at all. Even children instinctively realize this until their joy is trampled by mediocre teachers to ‘not make mistakes’ and to ‘make notes’.
Maybe I’m warming to this title more and more because I’m a musician. Maybe the initial reception was poor because, as Malstrom suggests, the people playing it were trying to play notes, and not make music (it’s something you learn about early on in the music space). I don’t know. What I do know, however, is that the closer we get to this Blue Ocean title, the deeper it appears to be.
The general consensus on WiiMusic is not changing. That article was simply an attempt by a four month old unknown blog to generate traffic.
So, you’ve read Infendo for a while, have you? Obviously not, with that comment.
right……
daverage, Malstrom’s articles are featured fairly frequently on this site. He also doesn’t write articles with the sole purpose of driving traffic. In fact, I distinctly recall an article with a philosophical tone, which was quite lengthy. One wouldn’t write an article like that for site hits. I’m pretty sure he writes because he likes to.
With that being said, I understand that Wii Music is more geared towards the improvisational and emotional side of music, and that playing Guitar Hero/Rock Band games is a lot more mechanical. However, I think that there’s something much more immersive in playing a physical replica instrument than waving the wiimote/nunchuk around and arbitrarily hitting buttons. This is important to those specific games, because as Malstrom said, those games are more about music “acting”. I wouldn’t necessarily say that Wii Music is more about music playing unless you have full control over the sounds being played, such as the drumming aspect. I expect Wii Music to be a fun game, but it fulfills something entirely different than the other games.
Let’s also not forget that Guitar Hero: World Tour will have a music studio, which will allow players to create music. That is certainly a cut above music “acting”, and so much closer to the real deal.
Wow….not just a Nintendo fanboy….you’re a Nintendo disciple.
I think labeling Wii Music “genius” pretty much ruins the word “genius”. Now if you want to argue that Nintendo is genius to get people to pay $50 to kind of pretend to sorta play something resembling music kinda, that I might agree with. But the title Wii Music…um…not even close.
I’m with Jack on this one – the haters can keep bashing Wii Music before it gets released, much like people have looked down on Wii Sports and Wii Fit. That doesn’t mean that (1) others won’t love the game, or (2) it won’t be successful.
Obviously, Wii Music won’t appeal to everyone… but it’s amazing how many people would rather complain and whine about it than just say “doesn’t look like this one is for me” and move on to the next title that will be more tailored to their interests.
“Let’s also not forget that Guitar Hero: World Tour will have a music studio, which will allow players to create music.”
Wii Music has a composition mode doesn’t it? I think it does, but I can’t remember. Heck, even that Hannah Montanna game for DS had a music composition mode.
I never recalled anyone looking down on Wii Sports.
And also, part the problem I see is that most people HAVE said “doesn’t look like this one is for me” and attempt to move on, but we have articles like this one claiming Wii Music is “genius” and for the most part try to convince everyone it’s going to be awesome and when people reply, then people whine that people are whining about it. Sure there’s a segment that have gone on and on but again, they are a minority.
I don’t think the game is going to be very good, and I have no plans to buy it. I’m sure it will sell many many copies and be a financial success, and that’s fine. People are free to do what they want to. But labeling it “genius” makes my BS meter break off.
Second Virtual Boy? What is that mean? The game doesn’t seem that bad. I’d say is more about the beat than anything else. Like when you move your feet to the beat. A beat game.
OK, “Mr. Editor” — The Virtual Boy sold approximately 770,000 units in its lifetime. If Wii Music doesn’t do that, your “note” above is accurate and means I lose this gentleman’s bet, and I have to buy a PS3.
OK, so I’ll never do that, but you’ll have some nice bragging rights. Maybe I’ll get my picture taken with a PS3 or something.
If Wii Music does sell, well, I’ll let you think up something equally clever as punishment.
It is OK to not like a game, right?
Whether or not it sells well is irrelevant. It is quite probabke at this point that Wii Music will neither be “critically acclaimed” or “fun”. Miyamoto is not infallible and for all intents and purposes Wii Music appears to be little more than a noisemaker. You aren’t making music if its pre-recorded songs, pure and simple. This doesn’t appear to be deep or robust. I haven’t seen anything to indicate that you cannot do anything other than slow or fast. That is not being a musician. It is equivalent to comparing football to the arcade game where you throw the ball in the large hole for a short gain or the small hole for long gain. And saying that is better than Madden is like saying Wii Music is better than Guitar Hero…. EXCEPT you can now create songs in World Tour. Everyone says instead of playing Guitar Hero to play a real instrument, as a musician I’d have to say this would be a sin Wii Music is far more guilty of.
Also if the initial reception was poor because people were not trying to play music maybe they should have prepped all the NOA staffers prior to E3… because they clearly did not play notes or make music. Or make it appear fun… which at the end of the day I think is what we were hoping for more so than a challenge as Nintendo fans.
I’m sorry but there is fanboyism and then there is fanaticism.
They can’t all be gems.
Everyone can slam their hands down on a piano, but not everyone can make something come out of it that sounds beautiful.
Wii music will be the same. No more arguments, this is becoming ridiculous.
This has nothing to do with fanboys, and anyone who uses that argument is uncreative and lazy. This is about looking past what we’ve come to know about music games and try something different.
Mario Paint. not a game. fantastic.
Mario Paint. not a game. fantastic.
Mario Paint. not a game. fantastic.
Malstrom is right.
Malstrom has been doing some of the best gaming journalism so far. He writes with the aim to inform mostly from a business perspective to inform people, not to drive traffic. He has been spot on so far.
http://www.eurogamer.net/article.php?article_id=190057
Eurogamer agrees, and now so do several other places too. People are just retards.
Kannon- I think you missed my point: I meant it is OK to be a fanboy, but don’t be a fanatic, i.e. blind to what is right in front of you.
While Mario Paint was not a game, you could create things in it and it was deep. I played it for hours on end because there was so much to do. You could make music, draw pictures, create animations, and so on. What have we seen from Wii Music to indicate that you create anything? These are pre-recorded songs, and most of them are either Nintendo’s or public domain from what I’ve seen. The crux of it seems to be that you can have many people at once try to work together to make music… but then does that mean you should all try to keep similar beats? Wouldn’t that defeat the whole point of it then? Or maybe there is no point of it, which I am totally OK with as well… but that’s a whole different story altogether.
But even looking past what we know about music games, or even games in general and take this as an interactive experience: Where is the interactivity? Other than the drumming simulator (which appears to control poorly) all I have seen is you move fast or slow. That just seems shallow. Music is about pitch and tone and style and relative comparison of sound… and while the shortcomings of music games in general are that they are just rhythm games Wii Music has done nothing to indicate it is about anything other than rhythm still… whether it is a game or not.
And from a business perspective Nintendo is at a point there they could put anything out and make money, so creating something that is accessible to the broadest amount of people is genius… but maybe this time they’ve made something so accessible it is pointless, charmless, humorless and just not fun. Or maybe they didn’t… trust me I’d love to be wrong here more so than anyone who disagrees would love to be right. Only time will tell.
Wii would like to play… nicely together.
I think Wii Music is going to be a flop commercially, but might become a cult hit among the musicians. The average Wii owner is not a musical prodigy and I don’t there’s enough in Wii music to keep them interested.
“I never recalled anyone looking down on Wii Sports.”
LOL!!!
Funny how people whitewash their embarrassing opinions from long ago.
Wii Sports was panned almost immediately. Now Wii Sports is part of the freaking Emmys. Funny how history corrects the haters.
This is real music karaoke at best….
LOL everyone always says Nintendo can just put out anything well the GC shows that they can’t along with the virtual boy. This article really isn’t for people that don’t understand the ideas behind why the Wii truly is winning because we all know the PS2 is cheaper when the GC had better graphics. If you are a big fan of HD gaming you will have no way of understanding why this makes sense. People not caring about the GC taught Nintendo a lot. People don’t care about high end graphics. Lots of people knew this.
The funny thing is he clearly stated why he isn’t being a fanboy about this game. He is into music. I play around with and use reason 4 a lot. It is a digital sequencer that is being used by most of the top selling producers across the board for rap all the way to pop music.
In this program is the ability to set a groove which actually plays the song differently. This is technically what we have seen in Wii music. The games so far shows how you can choose to use a controller to make music by way of organicly changing the temp rather than changing the base tempo. If it has a sequencer then Wii music will be my Mario paint I think. I only used the sequencer part. As happy and unthreatening it is I’m sure I could get some good rifts out of it and I’m a novice at live performance.
It’s only going to be genius to those who are fans of making music rather than playing rock star. I only like a few rock bands and guitarist and playing either rock game does nothing for me yet I’ve love video game midi for a while. It can sound like bleeps or blops but with the right sounds loaded those songs can sound better than traditional instruments.
Another thing is and this is to Apok:
We don’t know what will be included with Wii music and hey maybe they could just leave it the way it is? If they did who cares? Either your going to buy it or not. We didn’t think that the Wii would be what it was back when they started showing stuff for it. Hell we thought it was going to be the system we dreamed up in ours heads. Those systems are getting crushed right now. I guess what I’m trying to say is Nintendo is playing out a pattern now. They drip feed every thing now. Maybe this is done to keep the competition guessing.
Another thing is there are more types of music out there than rock. And rock band isn’t even about playing the music’s it is about remembering patterns and pressing buttons. I’m really shocked to see so many people love a Simon says sim and try to put down an equally possibly limited gaming option.
The funny thing is if this game does have a sequencer or even possible addition of sounds and saving of music then this would be much more fun to music makers than gamers. If this thing would hook up to max or rewire it would be way bigger than gaming!
[...] Article here [...]
I applaud you. I, too, am still excited to see what WiiMusic has to offer. Maybe it’s because I am a musician, too, but it looks really fun. Your extended metaphor is perfect.
The problem to me isn’t the lack of “challenge”. It’s the lack of freedom.
This game’ objective is to improvise on musics. The problem is that it limits you to two buttons to change the sounds. That’s very restrictive. It’s not like all the other Wii ____ games, where you have a simple, but quite deep, gameplay that all can enjoy.
Besides, the music selection until now is lacking.
Just look at Mii Freestyle mode on GH:WT. You can do everything you can on Wii Music, with more button to represent more notes. Besides, you have a full fledged Music Studio to make your own songs (for those more experienced) and a rithym game altoghether. Except having less instruments, it’s a lot more complete than Wii Music, and that’s just an extra mode in a game.
Why do people keep saying that Wii Music will be interesting to musicians? If anything, musicians will be the ones that this game upsets the most. You can’t create anything of your own in this game. I would much rather listen to a child just mess around on a piano (even if they were not skilled) than have to bear the frustration of this game. Knowing that the only influence one has over the “music” is the rate of notes that the machine creates for you would be infuriating for anyone who really cares about music. No freedom, no enjoyment. You could see it plain as day in the faces of those poor saps from NOA on stage at E3.
On the other hand, someone brought up Mario Paint, which is one of the best games ever on a console. Why? Because it is infinitely deep and infinitely free. You can create anything you can imagine in that game. Wii Music? It’s a brave new world we’re looking at here, and I for one deeply hope this game fails brutally so that Nintendo will be forced to turn in a new direction (back!) before it is too late. The question must echo through the halls of NCL headquarters: “What the hell were we thinking?”
“The problem to me isn’t the lack of “challengeâ€. It’s the lack of freedom.”
If you notice, you can change the sound by moving instead of press buttons. Press buttons is just for change to the next note.
“Funny how people whitewash their embarrassing opinions from long ago.
Wii Sports was panned almost immediately. Now Wii Sports is part of the freaking Emmys. Funny how history corrects the haters.”
Again I repeat…I don’t recall anyone “panning” Wii Sports. Even if it was, it was nowhere near the caliber of “panning” that Wii Music got. I’ve been with the Wii from the beginning and Wii Sports was the reason many people were even getting a Wii.
I don’t think it’s the so called “haters” that are changing history here.
Daverage has no life, he trolls in multiple sites, loser.
Maybe it would be more fair to compare wii music to something like Jam Sessions? (I think that’s what it’s called, a guitar simulator where you can select chords with the D-pad and the shoulder buttons, while strumming with the DS touch screen.
It’s not a game, and there is no way to lose – but it’s appealing to the right kind of person, and a lot of fun if you have a boring car ride ahead of you and some somewhat structured ideas.
Right….I’m a “troll” for claiming the majority of the press have not changed their tune on Wii Music.
What a bunch of FanBoy garbage. =)
But very par for this blog. lol!
Personally, and like many gamers who are not ridiculous fanBoys, I wont be convinced that this game is not rubbish by reading fanBoy, no disciples blathering.
Daverage has a point.
So do the fanBoys to an extent. After that they just sound halirious.
Like most Wii ” games” I jus don’t see myself playing this crap.
Man November can’t come soon enough. This presidental election will be over and the lead up to this “game” will be over.
First, it’s going to sell a half a million copies at least. There are enough people out there in the casual market that will pick it up because it’s cheap compared to Rock Band and GH4:WT, plus it has Nintendo on it.
However, I do agree, since I’ve been saying it for months, this is the next Virtual Boy. It’s going to be receiving bad reviews, and will NOT be a cult hit. Why? Because the one thing that made it unique, the make your own song ability, is now in GH4:WT. So why bother with Wii Music? Only if you hate failing at games, I.E. noobs/casual, you wouldn’t want to buy this.
BTW, this was an averagely written blog. Not the topic, just the fact it wasn’t well written. It was very meh.
>>>>Imagine if acting was seen as nothing more than ’saying lines’. How an actor would be horrified by that definition! And how guilty we would be if we believed it! Acting is far more than rote memorization.<<<>>Is the novelist about writing sentences and grammar? No, it is about writing stories. If it was writing, instead of music, then the rhythm games would be ‘grammar games’ set to people’s favorite stories, and an actual ’story game’ would be what WiiMusic is where sentences and grammar are no longer ‘issues’.<<<
Dragon Quest IV DS anyone?
-Imagine if acting was seen as nothing more than ’saying lines’. How an actor would be horrified by that definition! And how guilty we would be if we believed it! Acting is far more than rote memorization.-
Someone should inform 4Kids’ voice dialog directors that.
Malstrom’s posts are getting really crazy now which is fine because I’m always game for such amusement from him. As for Wii Music; it really doesn’t matter if it’s genius or not. The key is if the game is entertaining to the customer and Wii Music’s entertainment value will drive the sales.
-Is the novelist about writing sentences and grammar? No, it is about writing stories. If it was writing, instead of music, then the rhythm games would be ‘grammar games’ set to people’s favorite stories, and an actual ’story game’ would be what WiiMusic is where sentences and grammar are no longer ‘issues’.-
Dragon Quest IV DS anyone?
Sorry about the double post; issues with the symbols deleted some of the post.
^^ If by “crazy” you mean “offensively self-righteous, bloated and analytical beyond reason,” I’d agree with you.
And on topic, to consider Wii Music some sort of liberating rhythm game or to say it operates on some more meaningful level of existence than a “mere video game” is just ridiculous.
It’s a virtual noisemaker. And what’s been lost in the fanboy-push-back from Wii Music’s bad previews is the fact that Wii Music isn’t all that different from Guitar Hero. There is a set song, and it unfolds in a linear fashion. Only in Wii Music, you’re only tasked with changing the tempo by alternating button presses.
Liberating, right? Apparently, so is sitting on your couch pressing “channel up” and “channel down” on your television remote.
I agree that final judgment should be reserved until the game releases. But you know, previews come in two forms: bad and good. Prior to a game’s release, discussions are based on previews, and by nearly all objective accounts, this game has earned the bad press it has received.
We’ll see if it earns better reviews.
Blake, no offense, really, but go away.
Your lack of faith in Nintendo disturbs everyone, and quite frankly,
this website could do without your cynicism. Jack is right; Malstrom is right; you will be wrong about Nintendo’s product, as always.
Hasn’t history taught you ANYTHING?
2nd virtual boy? Rather harsh, especially cuz this is just a title (and Nintendo’s had many bad titles released after the VB).
Seems like some people are beginning to fear drowning in the blue ocean before even getting their feet wet.
I’m sure this title will be fun for MANY and those who whine may not end up liking it but that’s because you want WiiBand or WiiHero, those are ALREADY on their way so I don’t see why this needs to be yet another clone.
My only real concern is how well the motion will work without screwing up your beat, THAT will be frustrating.
“2nd virtual boy? Rather harsh, especially cuz this is just a title (and Nintendo’s had many bad titles released after the VB).”
Yeah, but it’s being positioned as THE major 1st party game for Christmas. It’s Miyamoto. Miyamoto can’t really fail unless something has gone terribly, terribly wrong, right? That’s why we’re flustered.