Factor 5: Wii matches PS3, “and then some”
Sunday, February 17th, 2008 at 4:17am by Derek
Factor 5 president Julian Eggebrecht sent Nintendo fans reeling in January when he announced his prestigious team has “at least one all-new Wii project” in development.
In an interview earlier this month with IGN’s Matt Casamassina at the annual DICE Summit in Las Vegas, Eggebrecht revealed a few more vague details and confirmed widely held expectations that Factor 5 would push the modest Wii hardware to unprecedented new levels.
What wasn’t expected, however, was the extent to which the Lair developer has pushed Nintendo’s comparatively under-powered platform. According to Eggebrecht, Factor 5 has created an engine for Wii software that “does everything the PS3 did and then some.”
“We’re pretty much at a state where we’re almost done with the engine. At the same time, we’ve also been working on content quite a bit because we had enough running very quickly on the platform that we were able to. But the biggest milestone or mark right now is that we’re almost done with the engine and it does everything that the PS3 did and then some, quite frankly. So we’re pretty happy with that.”
In regard to what he called the “uniqueness of the Wii,” and perhaps the result of a lesson learned from the flawed SIXAXIS controls that hindered PS3’s Lair, Eggebrecht emphasized the importance of the Wii remote’s IR pointer over its much-hyped motion controls.
“But one of our main focuses is the innovation around the controls. Everybody is always talking about the motion control, but I think people are overplaying that a bit. I really, really love the pointing aspect of the remote. Although we’re going to use everything for what we have in development, I think the pointing stuff is probably the biggest innovation which we’re working on right now.”
When asked if the game will utilize the nunchuck, Eggebrecht dropped some surprising tidbits about the “casual gaming” direction Factor 5 seems to be taking toward its upcoming Wii project.
“I can’t really comment yet because, quite frankly, you try to design almost every game for the Wii, I think, to avoid the nunchuck unless it’s necessary. If it is necessary and if the game lends itself to it, I think the nunchuck absolutely is valid. But one also has to be aware of the genre, because if you want to go very casual, then the nunchuck is the first barrier for really casual gameplay.”
Perhaps in regard to the persistent Kid Icarus rumors continuing to spread, Eggebrecht had a simple answer to whether the project is for a Nintendo first-party game or a third-party publisher:
“I won’t give you a clue.”
February 17th, 2008 at 5:53 am
I really hope that they use what they have to make a new Pilotwings game. Factor 5 could weave wonders for that franchise. Especially technically as the Pilotwings games have always been ambitious with their long draw distance.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:05 am
Yeah, it’s amazing what they managed to push out from the Gamecube. Too bad their games aren’t any fun at all (unless you consider torturing yourself to be any fun). Better to bring in Capcom to work on a Kid Icarius title instead. Maybe they can inject a little adultery goodness into old Icarius, so that it can appeal to all the kids out there who want more grown up titles for the Wii.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:39 am
Hmm if this is true about the engine being compared to the ps3 and then some, im impressed. But i will need to see this game to believe it. Is it possible to compare it to the ps3? Well i hope its as good as it sounds.
February 17th, 2008 at 7:29 am
The only worrying thing is that although the engine works, that doesn’t say anything about graphics, if it has a really complex engine for physics and such, the small Wii CPU is gonna suffer when it tries to pump out graphics to make us all say wow. They may have to compromise graphics to get everything else running well.. not that that’s a problem, as long as it works for whatever game it is they’re making I’m happy.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:50 am
Factor 5 later this year when the mystery title comes out:
“You see, here’s the thing… yes, this game looks incredible and the graphics are like a PS3 year-one release, but on the other hand it’s only 10 seconds long.”
February 17th, 2008 at 9:44 am
^And runs at 2 fps.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:20 am
@Jamie
The CPU certainly plays a role but the graphics processor will be doing the heavy lifting when it comes to the graphics. The CPU feeds the GPU some data points, the GPU does the hard work of rendering.
February 17th, 2008 at 10:22 am
^for the REALLY casual gamer
February 17th, 2008 at 1:16 pm
Absolutely ridiculous to assume, for one instance, that the Wii will graphically match the ps3. Not even close.
So right here. Right now. All fanboys don’t ven THINK about it. It will look GREAT for the Wii. That’s it. Probably the best looking wii game out,maybe ever. And really that is all we need to hear.
However, as far as MOTION CONTROL, it would, of course, exceed the ps3 by leaps and bounds.
I can not wait to play some great looking and sounding Wii games from Factor 5. Hopefully the motion controls will be tight as well
February 17th, 2008 at 1:51 pm
As wii wii advised, i too think that it is impossible he is talking about graphics. I mean, yea if there’s someone to make the best looking Wii game to date that surpasses Galaxy or Metroid by a great margin, is Factor5, no doubt.
But assuming this is a graphic engine? Well, hmm… I find that impossible to believe.
Im sure it will look great coming from Factor 5, and that’s all what I expect. For developers to use the Wiis extra power compared to PS2/cube/xbox. I just want Wii games to set appart from PS2 games visually, like MP3 and Galaxy did.
I think we’ll be pleased/surprised with this game. I say that wont surprise us if it looks awesome, as that’s what we expect from Factor 5. What will surprise most people is if it comes in 720p. Me? Im sure Factor 5 can pull it off.
February 17th, 2008 at 2:06 pm
This should be interesting. I was under the impression that the ps3, and 360 for that matter, were far more flexible in how their programmed. t must be that they actually put effort into making their engine rather than just porting a ps2 one. Although they could have used parts of their gamecube engine, but that was pretty awesome.
February 17th, 2008 at 3:00 pm
I remember an interview with Factor 5 where they talked about how they started fiddling about at the machine code level on the Gamecube’s Gekko GPU and forced it to do straight Normal mapping. This seems to imply that while the processor is optimized to perform fixed function graphical effects (the core ones being environment mapping, specularity, and so far as I can remember, Bump mapping too), programming at the low level, with sufficient knowledge, can in fact get it to replicate proper programmable shader operations. If such a thing is true, then it definietly can replicate all the effects that PS3 can, particularly if Factor 5 is at the helm.
The difference would then be in the capacity. Obviously this is a combination of resolution, frame rate, and the density of effects. The quantity of effects will certainly be lower, and the frame rate might suffer too, but in this case, not being HD helps out, potentially increasing the amount of effects per pixel up to 6 fold. Anyway, Wii can’t approach the density of effects, but it probably can replicate the effects, and it probably can replicate all the ones that convey the most visual punch.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:19 pm
Please oh PLEASE say they’re not wasting all their talent and time making a stupid Pilotwings game.
February 17th, 2008 at 6:41 pm
Wasn’t that the dude, that bashed Wii until a few weeks ago?
February 17th, 2008 at 6:50 pm
Please oh PLEASE say they’re devoting their talent and time making an awsome Pilotwings game…
(it’s one of the few game types I have confidence in Factor 5 to accomplish favorably).
February 17th, 2008 at 7:46 pm
I think the common Nintendo fan mentality displaying itself here needs to tone it down. Are we really only excited for sequels to existing franchises? Forget about Pilotwings and Kid Icarus. I hope Factor 5 makes something innovative, fun and fresh for us to play.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:50 pm
johnnymilkshark: I’m partially with you on that one. I’d rather Factor 5 didn’t make a Pilotwings or Kid Icarus.
I’d rather them make a Star Fox.
February 17th, 2008 at 8:51 pm
Frankly johnnymilkshark, I don’t trust Factor 5 with anything original. I’m much more looking forward to something new from Retro, as I believe they have the boundless talent to handle it and do it justice.
As for sequels, Pilotwings has had a total of 2 itterations in 3 generations, neither of which was similar, both of which were brilliant. Considering the new interface, and Factor 5’s capability for producing huge open air flight areas, Pilotwings with Factor 5 on Wii is an absolutely perfect fit. Furthermore, I see a big opportunity for the new non-gamers joining the market to experience and love the freedom of flight, just as they can newly experience the depths with Endless Ocean. Consider that there are practically no flight games that give you the level of freedom of Pilotwings 64 at all on any system, and then consider that of the flight games available, practically NONE are on Wii, a system practically built for it. This is a disgrace. I would consider it reaching practically unexplored territory, rather than retreading old steps.
I fail to see how Factor 5 could be capable of successfully making anything MORE innovative, fun and fresh on Wii than a third Pilotwings, none of which demand a new franchise. It’s not like there’s anything tying that particular franchise together besides a name, the idea of flying and quality, is there?
February 17th, 2008 at 10:01 pm
^ LOL at kee’s comment
February 18th, 2008 at 2:30 am
@ elmer: I’d rather be surprised by an entirely new game. Pilotwings would be nice on the Wii but I’d rather it come out of Nintendo’s own studio considering it’s their property. Let’s hope Factor 5 can change your mind on how talented they may or may not be. I personally haven’t enjoyed any of their games but maybe they’ll surprise me too. There is a reason why this system is called Wii and not Super Gamecube… Try not to forget that.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:22 am
Fine then, but as juvenile as it is, I would like to point out that:
a) Pilotwings never came out on Gamecube
b) When Nintendo announced the system’s name was ‘Wii’, amongst the toilet humour jokes, people also asked “you mean like flying through the air?”
February 18th, 2008 at 12:59 pm
Why is this company held in such high regard anyway? Nothing in their resume is great except Rogue Leader, which was fun, but still had serious flaws (like the confusing mission objectives).
It seems to me they can make a great looking game, but that’s about it. As someone mentioned above, these guys like messing around with machine code. They’re not good at telling stories or even good at game design. Just graphics.
February 18th, 2008 at 3:58 pm
….. which is why I think they’d be great for Pilotwings. Because there is no story and the design is already there. Just make it look great.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:22 pm
1- I’m pretty sure the quote had more to do with the capabilities of the engine than it’s graphical performance compared to the PS3.
2- Factor 5 is among the very best at what they do well: make great graphics. When you are at the top of any field, you deserve to be recognized.
February 18th, 2008 at 5:24 pm
Yeah, in fact, when I consider it, I’d rather these technical Wizzs work on a technically challenging game like Pilotwings while Nintendo’s internal resources are freed up to come up with more new ideas and IPs. Like you’re all bloody demanding. How can there be something wrong with that? Factor 5 has a lot of weaknesses as a studio, and Pilotwings is one of very few games that could play to their strengths.
February 18th, 2008 at 10:32 pm
doc_bungle:”Maybe they can inject a little adultery goodness into old Icarius…”
I don’t think Nintendo is going to jump into sexual content and something as controversial as “adultery”, I rather see they make a nice platformer with it than Leisure Suit Icarus!
February 18th, 2008 at 11:49 pm
You guys are forgetting that they will be letting other people use this engine and yes graphics are at the for front of these comments. If you know the tech and remember how he claimed others are not even pushing the Wii graphicly then you can assume what he is talking about. I’m not really going to talk about it here but really lets see what he has to show.
Well shot lets talk about some of it!
Key features S3 compression said to be 20:1 could be helped by disk streaming. Resolution and really really great mip mapping makes lots of thing possible. Maximizing the sram to do more things rather than using the using the bus in LA traffic. Like some one said above resolution can really help, instead of using a frame buffer for displaying each hi res frame you could get more effects. I want more effects. Yet if they do get normal mapping that will automatically put them on the same page with the PS3 !if! they can do it at a really good resolution. Normal mapping looks good in SD and HD since it actualy seems like more polygons. I mean really what happens when you start putting texture depth into a texture on the pixel level (zbrush) and then light it on the fly to produce a normal map? Procedural textures? Then on top of that convert the S3 stuff to compress it? Hey I’m just dreaming as I would love to see real normal maps in a Wii game since it would make it a lot easier to ok a game for the system since normal mapping is the new tool of the industry. I will not be disappointed nor mad at them if it does not happen though. This type of heavy lifting is expected from the people who made the GPU. From what I’ve heard from them these things are very do-able. We will see but it’s fun to talk about. If you notice their game did not suffer from the delays of most HD games on the PS3. They have started content creation already. This is big. I’m sure the artist are not using toon shaders since using mud box and zbrush are very addictive tools once learned. Yet who knows. The fact that factor 5 is saying this and also willing to let other play with this code it crazy. They could easily be the epic games of the Wii and actually make more money than them due to no one having a good 3d engine for the Wii.
Go read up on how the Wii has a hardcoded shader pipeline and actually how it had one of the first console base gpus made for shaders. The only problem is nvidia and ati make it so much easier with the newer chips. They are so flexible to you unless you really are into “getting to know” the chips you are using. If you know any thing about factor 5 then you should remember they had a snes game made almost with out any snes development hardware. You heard zero complaints about the PS3 from them programming wise. The control thing in lair is unfortunate but really a company like this needs a platform to shine on and the HD systems are flooded with good and bad games that look so good because of some effects. Add a Wii mote and crazy visuals and suddenly the hardcore games will surpass the casual. Please remember lots of early games are seen as casual now yet they are very challenging.
What ever game they make will be cool yet the lic of the engine will be even bigger. Yet even street fighter 2 was playable on the SNES when we all though the neo geo was the only system capable of such a feat.
Also hopefully this will be a new game from them. Another turrican would be sweet!
February 19th, 2008 at 3:36 am
Run line 10: I think what he meant by “and then some” is about controllers, not really better graphics…
February 19th, 2008 at 12:09 pm
Maybe so but that would be a wastse since they have said multiple times that they are unimpressed by the graphical out put of the other developers on the Wii. We will see. It would make more since to make an engine thats graphical work horse since this is not currently some thing that is big yet on the Wii. It just like how epic operated with UT3. You wow people with what your effects can do then you show them the tools which also include motion controls. It would make more sense to do this since they will be in competition with nintendo, alive(sp?) motion and other guys when it comes to motion control.
Yet who knows? It’s fun to talk about though.